Girls at DD’s school cannot wear socks because men and boys feel uncomfortable

[Eastie77Returns]

DD’s school has placed a ban on girls wearing socks due to persistent issues with girls wearing skirts that are too short and not the school’s regulation kilts. According to the e-mail sent to parents, girls wearing socks with said short skirts has resulted in some “members of the school community” feeling uncomfortable. When the issue was raised further by some parents, the (male) Deputy made it clear that it was essentially unfair to male pupils, and presumably teachers, to be made to feel awkward when girls undergarments were visible to them. There have also been issues with boys making suggestive comments to girls in short skirts.

I support the school enforcing school uniform policy but hate the fact that 12 year old DD and her friends are already being policed as to what they can or cannot wear because…men. DD hates the thick black tights she now has to wear. She always wore the correct length skirt and knee high socks.

The situation will apparently be reviewed ahead of the warmer months. I just feel this reinforces the view that girls & women need to ensure they dress in a way that doesn’t attract male attention but boys are not learning that inappropriate comments and behaviour towards a girl because of the way she dresses is completely unacceptable.

I have seen actual arse cheek of a school girl in uniform. Not an exaggeration at all. And if you can see knickers then that’s arse cheek level isn’t it?

Which is the whole problem. Half of them these days have their backsides hanging out and it is completely inappropriate for children. Teachers go to school to teach and as a woman it makes me feel uncomfortable too. God knows how this craze started but it’s getting ridiculous now. Some are rolled up so high it looks like a belt instead of a skirt. I suppose when you look at some of the role models young girls have these days it shouldn’t be too surprising when former glamour models are practically walking around naked most of the time. Blame them for making children think walking around half naked is an acceptable way to behave in school. I mean I’m no fan of extreme views but I can understand why some cultures put so much emphasis on young girls dressing modestly when this sort of thing is becoming the norm in schools.

I live close to a senior school where the girls were wearing very short skirts. I try to avoid being around when school is out as it’s mayhem, but recently have had to and noticed the entire school uniform has now changed to what looks like a type of PE tracksuit. I’m guessing the teachers and governors had just had enough of dealing with their own skirtgate.

I loved a mini skirt in my 20s (when rara skirts were in, the 1980s) but in my teens (1970s) I wore mostly some form of trousers (Oxford bags, flares etc).

The problem is the length of the skirts, when worn normally or rolled up.
The problem is not socks nor tights.

The school can't/won't address the skirt issue so they cop out by creating an issue for girls who don't want to wear tights.

School wash their hands of the issue. @Eastie77Returns share contact details and we will all email school.

When i was at secondary school I hated wearing tights but felt i was too old for socks. The crotch would ride down (I was skinny) and rub on my thighs. So I used to wear another pair of knickers on top of my tights , how sweaty and unhealthy!

Are there any school that have skorts as uniform?

There was a craze for teenage boys to wear trousers low so that their designer pants showed. No one talked about their human rights or female teachers being aroused. It was stamped out pretty quickly. No one minded women staff telling them to pull up their trousers. Some women think no one has the right to comment on their clothing no matter how inappropriate. All staff had a go at boys to cover up their pants when it was the fashion. I also heard female staff warning the boys that showing their pants or their bum cracks would get them in trouble with the police when they are older. No male teacher would dare talk like that to a girl. There are two standards.

Come to where I live.

Agree! I’ve read all the posts by the OP but not had time to read whole thread.

@Eastie77Returns if you’re planning to complain this might be helpful https://endsexisminschools.org.uk/campaign-projects/school-uniform-policy/

You might get some good wording if you look or post on the Feminism boards. This has happened before at some schools, though I’ve never seen it as a socks ban! 🤦‍♀️

Let Clothes Be Clothes is no more but some who helped with that campaign and the specifics of their school uniform report might still be around on Mumsnet. Good luck.

oh, and it might be more powerful for the girls themselves to complain, and get the boys on side. A day of no one wearing socks, whatever their sex, to show how ridiculous it is.

I hope the girls can wear trousers, btw?

I do not want my yr 7 son following yr 11 girls up the stairs to their next lesson, and getting a full up close view of their bums. It would not be acceptable in any other scenario!

Exactly. People need to take responsibility for dressing appropriately in public, and for not forcing other people to see their private parts. It doesn't even need to be anything about sex; just basic decency and respect. Nobody tries to make a flasher in the park into a victim and blames women for 'looking at him'.

Also, people are saying about 'sexualising' girls at school, but they're adolescents who are approaching the age of consent. Obviously any adult showing sexual interest in a schoolgirl is despicable; but the girls and boys of that age will be starting to develop and think about sexual attraction amongst each other. Just as we wouldn't accept an adolescent boy deliberately showing his private parts to girls, it's not acceptable the other way either.

I don't think anybody is caviling about girls wearing fashionable mid-thigh skirts, but once you're approaching the point where you're freely displaying your private parts (genitals and/or bum cheeks) to anybody in a public place who happens to walking nearby, the problem is with you and not them; and if you're wilfully flashing people, you cannot then gaslight those who catch a view as being somehow to blame for it.

The ban is unfortunate, but as a middle aged straight mum of 2 adult kids, if I worked in the school, I wouldn’t want to be seeing the underwear of a 12yo girl. It’s not appropriate in school. It’s not just men and boys who’d be uncomfortable. I wouldn’t be thinking sexual thoughts, I’d be thinking it’s just off to come to school with your pants on show.

This. Why should they have to be hot and uncomfortable in tights for men’s alleged discomfort?

The irony is that for many of these skirts if you took a photo you could be charged with making indecent images of children.

If the issue is that some girls are persistently flouting skirt length then the messaging of the new tights rule should focus on them not men and boys which is completely inappropriate.

Whoever is behind framing of this is an idiot.

I think I would see rebellion as keeping my skirt long 😂

I don't think her clothing choices are limited here because of men. It's because of the girls who don't follow the skirt length rules. Blame them. I don't want to see underwear either.

There are ways around it other than banning socks of course. We rolled up our skirts in the 90s and the solution the school came up with was to change the skirt style to an ugly pleated one that couldn't be rolled without looking stupid.

@BernardButlersBra Then how come so many women were offended by the fashion for adolescent boys to wear trousers so low that it showed their pants. I think most women were revolted by it as most posters on here seem to be by girls showing their bums in short skirts.
Most people learn to wear appropriate clothing. Why not insist on regulation PE kit 5 days a week with tracky bottoms and sweatshirts in cold weather. It would be sensible for everyone

This. The PE kit of the school I used to live near was ridiculous. (The shorts were barely bigger than knickers, whoever thought making teenage girls wear those should probably be on a list somewhere.) Saying that I never saw any girls wearing school uniform skirts with their arses hanging out.

I would have hated trousers, as a young teen I had a fair amount of puppy fat and the thought of squeezing into tight trousers or having them flapping around me because I had to size up to get them over my arse would have been mortifying.

I was very much the exception to the short skirt craze, in order to hide my figure amongst the waif like peers (it was the 90s, waifs were in) my skirt was round my ankles 😂

Just make the rule that they have to wear cycling shorts, that's what the short skirt gang in my school did anyway. Plus if they pull it above the length of the shorts it would look a bit silly.

I'd get a GP letter saying your dd has sensory issues and can't wear tights.

(I have ADHD sensory issues and can't wear tights).

I agree. People are saying "Just deal with the girls who are showing their knickers" as if the school hasn't thought to try that.
I'm sure they don't want to spend the entire time arguing with girls about their knickers showing and then the girls carrying on anyway. Maybe they prefer to focus on teaching.

What about the sensory issues of wearing cycling shorts? Many of which are very short anyway.

I’m a sixty something woman and I don’t want to see school girls butts either. If I were a schoolgirl and boys were coming to school in nothing but budgie smugglers am I not allowed to feel I’d rather they didn’t. Would that make me a pervert? A woman where I used to work would wear this really low cut dress where her boobs were hanging out. No one said anything (to her face) but we certainly did have an opinion on not thinking it was office appropriate.

No, its not an exaggeration. Maybe the girls round your area have a little more self respect. Imagine being a teenage boy at school trying to navigate puberty and all the angst thay brings, to be presented, on a daily basis, with teenage girls in skirts that barely cover their buttocks. Then imagine the same teenage boy ending up in the heads office being told he is a nasty little pervert for having the temerity to SEE what is in front of him constantly. What is the poor bugger expected to do, wear a blindfold every day?

55 years old...this is as old as me and doesnt excuse girls not being permitted to wear easier and healthier clothes...are we falling so far back that its ok to say the girls are responsible for mens sexual reactions?? I guarantee there are no policies about builders bum trousers

It's about what is suitable clothing in different situations. An adult wouldn't turn up to the office in a bikini/swimshorts because they know that is not appropriate.

Teenage girls need to learn that turning up to school wearing a skirt so short that you can see their bum cheeks isn't appropriate.

I hate the male teen fashion of baggy trousers pulled down and underpants on display. Think that looks ridiculous and makes me want to laugh. Thankfully I don't see that much now in the area where I live. I'm sure that if boys did that with their school trousers they would be told that's inappropriate and rightly so.