Gordon Brown and AMW

[Shadeflower]

Presumably the information GB is now presenting on AMW is stuff he had access to while he was in Governement? If so, why is he only speaking out now? Or did he try earlier and the establishment was such that even the PM couldn't be heard?

I like GB, always did, I'm curious about what it was that means he's only speaking out now.

Like I said, let's wait for the evidence to come out before seeking to discredit anyone.

Agreed. Badenoch would do well to take that approach too, instead of using inflammatory language at the dispatch box.

There is something about Badenoch which reminds me of sixth form politics. I can't quite put my finger on what it is.

Yes what we need is more male politicians calling female ones irrelevant and carping from the sidelines. Sounds great.

How people are supporting that who knows.

Using the words "carping" and "irrelevant" is not offensive. Unlike Badenoch using the language of hotel shouters and roundabout painters.

Interesting that you don't condemn that.

It has nothing to do with her being female.

What makes you so sure? What a shame people support the male losing it and resorting to that as Starmer often does. He must feel at threat to lose control. To applaud it is something else though.

Starmer didn't lose it yesterday. I think you are trying to distract from Badenoch's appalling behaviour which has been rightly condemned by many, including Katie Amess.

Of course he did. He’s using insults over rational responses because he’s under threat. Typical for him.

That you criticise the woman because it’s a Labour male is no surprise, and I’m sure Kemi can deal with his nonsense better than most, but he is foul.

Of course some might think being called irrelevant or carping from the sidelines is ok but fuck that quite frankly. On behalf of young women going into politics too.

I'm not going to hold back from criticising Badenoch simply because she is female. As a woman, she deserves to be held to the same standards as any other politician.

I think her judgement is poor. Cheap jibes about Labour being the party of "paedophile defenders" do her no credit - it's the kind of comment that a smug sixth former might make, congratulating themselves on their own cleverness but without any real thought about the consequences.

It feels rather like politics is just a big game for her. Point scoring rather than policy. I can't imagine someone like Theresa May having behaved like this.

Can you expand on why you think Starmer answering a question on increasing youth unemployment with you’re irrelevant and carping from the sidelines is ok?

Have you never watched PMQs before?

I iften freely criticise Starmer, I am not a Labour apologist, fan girl or whatever. But "carping from the sidelines" is a minor insult that any politician would be able to brush off and I am sure Badenoch did.

Still ignoring Badenoch's behaviour, I see.

Yes, that's what it is! I find her very difficult to give credibility to. I've been concerned that that's because of my unconscious bias.

I heard her on Desert Island Disks. She came across as warm, intelligent and "normal". If I was "managing" her, she'd be doing much more of that kind of thing.

I haven't said it's ok, and I don't actually like that kind of discourse in our politics regardless of which side it is coming from. I would prefer to see all of our politicians behaving like professional adults and communicating accordingly.

But this is just pure whataboutery from you. In the grand scheme of things, I don't think Starmer calling someone irrelevant or saying that they are carping from the sidelines is even nearly as inappropriate as Badenoch's highly inflammatory and ill-judged comment.

You can defend her all you like, but she isn't coming out of this one looking very good.

Still ignoring Starmer’s behaviour I see.

In that interaction you’ve focussed on Kemi, no surprise. I’m glad she gets a lot of support generally if not from a few pro Labour.

I do feel for girls who have people around them who think nothing of his you’re irrelevant lines. And think go the younger generation, I hope girls growing up today don’t take it.

Yes, I heard that too.

Obviously I couldn’t see it more differently but I prefer girls and woman to have a chance. And men using those kinds of dismissals have no role anywhere for me.

It looks like everyone else is realising what a male world it has been, linking it back to Epstein, Mandelson and everyone who ignored it. May the women do well when it takes them out.

I do feel for girls who have people around them who think nothing of his you’re irrelevant lines

No need to get personal.

I haven't said it's ok, and I don't actually like that kind of discourse in our politics regardless of which side it is coming from. I would prefer to see all of our politicians behaving like professional adults and communicating accordingly

I agree @MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack . They are all as bad as each other when it comes to slinging insults at PMQs.

It wasn’t about you since I don’t know who you have around you. Generally though.

I can see why male politicians created this world when women are held up for words and men overlooked for actions.

Kemi might not be perfect, why should she be? People mocked Thatcher too because she didn’t fit the mould. But she is doing better than most at overturning barriers. And I bet inspiring many girls on the way. Her detractors will knock her down, I hope she succeeds even more.

Yawn.

We all want women and girls to have a chance. We all want accountability for men like Epstein or Mandelson. You can try to paint anyone who disagrees with you as a misogynist that doesn't give a shit about women but you just make yourself look a bit stupid because that is very obviously not what's going on here.

I do understand that you are unable to bring yourself to criticise what Badenoch said, and so you keep trying to dodge the point because you know you can't really defend it. That's OK, there are plenty of others on the right who will be honest enough to call her out on it.

As for Mandelson, most regular posters on these boards will be very familiar with your obsessive dislike of the Labour Party, so we do understand that you will be relishing any evidence which emerges against them. I find it weird that anyone would take such obvious pleasure in such sordid revelations but you can enjoy the scandal if that's the kind of thing you like. Notwithstanding that, I think you should avoid trying to cast doubt on the integrity of individuals against whom there is no evidence of any wrongdoing.

I stopped at ‘yawn’ I can see why male politicians get where they do.

Badenoch has achieved an incredible amount. But I am still going to criticise her.

OK. It's fine if you don't want to engage with the content of my post. I think we all know why.

Yes I’ve said why already, there’s no point with a poster who starts a post with yawn.