Labour isn't working - Thread 26

[TheNuthatch]

A chat thread for those who don't like this Labour government. 💙🩵

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

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www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5475321-labour-isnt-working-thread-25?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

Labour faces another political headache as the “Trigger Me Timbers” controversy resurfaces, potentially reigniting local anger in the week that Starmer is expected to announce the party’s candidate.

A 94-page investigation concluded that one Labour councillor, George Newton, made “several remarks that a reasonable person would find racist” about the Labour MP Nav Mishra.

Another, Jack Naylor, was judged to have made an antisemitic joke when he changed the lyrics of an Elton John song to “And I guess that’s why she hates all the Jews” in a discussion about an unnamed person.
Newton and Naylor have since been expelled by the party but continue to represent Denton as independent councillors.

Naylor will tell councillors his comment was “ill-judged and inappropriate” but strongly contests any accusation of antisemitism. In a written statement, he offered a “full and unequivocal” apology and added: “There is no justification for my involvement, irrespective of any inexperience – I take full responsibility for my actions; and for any offence caused, regardless of my intent, I am truly sorry.”

The damning findings came after a formal complaint about Gwynne and other Labour figures making “disgusting, racist, sexist, homophobic and vile comments”.
The investigation found that Newton “persistently abused and denigrated” people including Mishra, making remarks that “a reasonable person would find racist”.

Newton said he regretted his “childish” language but told the investigation he was making “private jokes on a private messaging platform”. He said he did not believe he had breached the councillors’ code of conduct “because it was a private conversation”.

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My goodness the irony of the rich seam of anti Semitism that runs through the labour party !!

The irony when they spit out the word fascist all the time !

It’s clear to see that the Labour Party judge people by Their own standards. They see what they’re looking for because it Is them.

This is a slight sidebar

There is a type of person who makes nasty comments about every single group. They think it's edgy humour or something. I have heard one man admit to doing this - reasonably well known in his sphere of work - and he has some sort of pathetic excuse of not really knowing how to mix otherwise. He apparently told these jokes are an after work drink thinking it would be obvious that they were jokes and people would laugh at him thinking he was Ricky Gervais or something.

I don't really understand how anyone can get anywhere in a career with that kind of maturity level, but I particularly don't get it if you're an MP.

I guess the people in this Labour group would automatically hate everyone if you analysed their messages. I have heard people express sympathy for the man that I knew.

On the one hand, I don't think he actually does hate everyone - but I find the excuse of not understanding what humour is acceptable to be really.... thin? I get that someone might occasionally make a joke that goes wrong, but when there's absolutely loads of them, you've just got to wonder what's going on in their head.

This leads me to the depressing question - has everyone gone entirely mad?!

Not heard that phrase since high school… Of course they’ll claim it’s ironic or some such righteous twaddle.

Yes it’s on a level with ‘be there or be square’

Labour have more than 400 MP's in the House Of Commons and not one has resigned the Party Whip over the methodical destruction of the United Kingdom. This, tells you everything about the average level of Labour MP's . It is obvious with the honorable exception of perhaps Rosie Duffield, not one current member of the Labour Party in the HOC has any moral courage. Thus, it has hardly surprising the revelations coming out of Denton Labour 'club' and anti -Semitic behavior is not condemned but actively encouraged there. This, tells you all you need to know of the standards of Labour Parliamentary selection committees. I guess they deliberately choose no marks to stand for Parliament. This, being in the knowledge that these Prospective Parliamentary Candidates will be either 'frightened' or in awe of the Labour party to cause any ructions within the party.

I know Rosie Duffield is currently an independent !

There's so many first timers inexperienced MPs in the labour party. The same will be true of the conservatives and reform at the next election. I don't think there's ever been a time in my lifetime where we've had so many incapable individuals running a country. I'm not having a dig at any party btw. But their skill sets are more theory than practical.

This is one of my biggest worries. Having waves and waves of successive governments getting in on a manifesto of change when they don't have enough experience to know what is actually possible, to understand potential unintended consequences and enough savvy to push any valuable change through.

I think that's why I try to sit on my hands when conservatives shift over to reform. We couldn't possibly have a party with so many seats and so little institutional familiarity.

There's a pro-KS thread currently running on here; someone just commented it's nice to have a sensible boring grown up in charge for once. Boring, yes, but the rest of it...

Oh l God I thought the grown up comments had stopped.

We do seem to have a competence problem across the board

But I'm including all kinds of businesses in that. I'm not just talking about Parliament. It's a really complicated issue which long needed addressing and I certainly felt it got worse under Boris Johnson.

In terms of competence, I won't name names - but I have heard a recruiter from a major company saying that he preferred graduates who did not have a business related degree. I think the way some companies recruit is also bonkers.

I think, if you are may be over 50, I'm 49 though so that's possibly not an inappropriate age bracket - all the people who led seminars with blue sky thinking and what have you seem to be the people in charge now. And it happens everywhere.

I'm sure this is connected to our crumbling infrastructure as well

i'd be interested to know if other countries are having this problem as well. I feel like we're surrounded by airy fairy managers who are prioritising everything except efficiency. I'm not sure whether politics counts as something that's downstream or upstream of that.

but generally, it's a question of, where did efficiency go? example that feels valid - a couple of years ago I lost my Internet connection. I spent about two weeks trying to get it sorted and the very nice man I was speaking to finally said to me that he knew I needed a visit from an engineer, but it was the company policy to delay that as long as possible. He also agreed with me that probably a connection has simply popped out in one of those wire boxes in the street.

So when somebody finally went out to check that, that is what it was

My experience speaking with colleagues from some other countries suggest to me that it might be a British problem. Exacerbated by the fact that there was a long period of time when no one was doing any work in lockdown.

equally, when people say that they can't get hold of certain colleagues who are working at home, I think "don't these people have measurable outputs?"

so why would they not get in trouble for not meeting them? I worked at home mostly from 2016. But I actually have to deliver stuff.

sorry that was very long! But there's probably a link between politicians being incapable and the rest of the state of things.

I do wonder who is running social media and press policy.

I might have bored you all with this already, but one book I read talked about Alistair Campbell revolutionising communications in the Labour Party with the simple insistence of having a big sheet displaying all communications activity across the country.

That seems to me to be an absolute basic in managing communications - but it was actually worth listing in a book apparently!

There were also not convinced there is even the slightest hint of crisis in Labour.

Surely that’s over, what nonsense that was.

I remember @UpstartledI think saying the high point in focus groups for Starmer was just after he started and got ‘boring’ as feedback. That was his hey day.

He gets way worse now.

They must have very skewed relationships with the men in their lives if being a grown up which is a strange description in itself is attributed to him. Freud would be fascinated.

Yes there was also another thread, stating that the right to a vote should be determined by the level of your education. This, presumably was down to the fact that people who are likely to vote for Reform or be Conservative in their political leanings, where less likely to have gone to University. This, brings in to the question the 'intelligence' of a person with a PHD who thinks Zac Polanski would make a suitable Prime Minister. Alternatively the Masters student studying Economics at LSE who thinks Rachel Reeves is an excellent, Chancellor !

Really, these types of people are evidence that some people with the highest IQ's and academic qualification's outside academia, are on par with those who believed the world was flat . A total lack of critical thinking and virtuous belief that voting for Socialism/Communism is a noble cause for civilization ....

I don’t think mn will get over their Starmer love in, some of them anyway.

It still doesn’t match the polling.

Yes there was also another thread, stating that the right to a vote should be determined by the level of your education

Did you read the responses? The OP was completely and thoroughly derided! No-one agreed with such a stupid idea.

I actually think age, educational and property ownership qualifications for voting should apply. A voter should be over 21, not a sociology or political science (broadly defined) student and not a person who has no responsibility for property rental, ground rent or mortgage payments.

Nobody with a shitty degree subject or no interest in the general performance of the economy should be allowed to vote.

Ok, not serious. But I do think there’s a terrible freeloading culture that we have to stamp on.

@EmeraldRoulette yourpost is fascinating and disquieting. I'm strongly getting the same sense, most seriously in places like the NHS -flawed for a long time, but A&E sounds genuinely frightening now. Glasgow's roads and streets are another - potholes like a literal third world country, and utterly filthy, squalid streets full of rubbish and litter with the rat problem to match.

I'm very rural and weirdly that works better, people are used to a greater level of self sufficiently perhaps, plus it's retirees running a lot of the extras and they're the most efficient generation. Of course Starmer and Lanout in general loathe rural areas.

😁 I still have those word clouds that charts Starmer's 2024 'Boring' and demise to 2025 'weak' and 'useless'. I wonder what 2026 will bring...

Edit...how am I only just seeing that wanker made it into 2025? 🤣

The problem this country has is the number of voters who enjoy our considerable largesse, and their numbers will increase next April under Labour. Some, but not all, can't see the wider picture beyond the benefits they enjoy.

For them voting for any party with a stated manifesto to reduce welfare payments would be like the proverbial turkeys voting for Christmas.

Labour knows exactly what's doing by cultivating its bedrock of self-interested idle voters.

@SpaceRaccoon I had some really concerning experiences with my parents in the hospital going back quite a way now

I do think it's got worse and that's scary.

But when even private companies are not interested in efficiency, I'm really baffled - but I don't have the inside info on how the complete lack of efficiency does or doesn't affect their bottom line.

In terms of the state of public areas, yes, it is shocking - and I know someone whose parents recently visited from abroad (having retired) and they were sad to see how much things have changed just since they last visited (pre-lockdown)

That was in a London suburb.

to some extent, I think these things go in cycles and a lot of what's happening now seems to have been visible in the 70s - I was too little to know, but I'm sort of vaguely aware of it and my mum has confirmed it.

But even she feels this sense of "what next?" Because it doesn't feel like anyone in government, local or national, is concerned about any of it. They get excited about cycle lanes and stuff. But they don't care about fixing any basics.

Agree!!

Sorry.