Are families really expected to pay for care home fees?

[Whatsituation]

I always thought it was paid for by savings or property owned by the person or if they had neither then paid by the government?

Dh has been telling me how if MIL/FIL ever needs to go into a home his siblings will expect us to contribute along with them for a ‘better’ home?? I’ve said no that’s not happening and it won’t be a better one just the same I assume but they will
habe money coming in from various places for each resident it’s not like there are council care home and private ones I assumed the council fund spaces wherever they are ?

He’s said I’m being unkind but there’s no way I’m spending money on care fees for his parents !

It’s a firm no from me.
Without derailing the thread, @Whatsituation who and how was your Mat leave funded when you had DC? Did you have unrestricted access to family money, or did DH give you an ‘allowance’ or something else. Basically, was he all up for chipping in when you were raising your DC or is this only a thing now his siblings want his parent in a nicer home?

I'm blown away by the number of people who wouldn't be prepared to contribute anything. Not even like £100 a month?

Not everyone has £100 to spare

Sorry, I don't mean to single you out, but what do you mean by the family "just step away"

Have you ever been in this position?

It certainly wasn't the case in our situation that family would or could just step away. The family worked with the social worker to assess the dementia, carers came in, it worked for a while (with family still involved) but it became clear the relative wasn't safe on their own.

A care home was decided on, by family and social worker provided a list as well as costs) and at no point was it ever suggested the top up fee was a choice, or that anyone could walk away.

Perhaps this is one of those situations you can't call until you're in the thick of it.

All of this, plus despite the 'poor pensioner' narrative, many older people have a larger disposable income than a lot of families who are paying high housing and childcare costs, feeding a family, commuting, saving towards the university that the system forces them to contribute to by reducing student loans their DC are entitled to unless they earn very little etc etc.

For older pensioners who need care, they will generally own their homes outright (and have benefitted from enormous house price inflation so asset rich) or in the case of the OP, be entitled to help with paying their rent. They have a state pension. If they need a care home, they will be entitled to attendance allowance. Their income exceeds their needs and wants by a considerable amount, given that they're not exactly in a position to spend a lot of money on leisure activities. So why shouldn't use money they have and don't need for anything else to pay for their own living costs, which includes care?

Why should working age families struggle and risk their own financial stability to give money to people who don't need it?

MN is fond of saying 'don't set yourself on fire to keep others warm', this is very relevant here.

I don’t think there is an expectation to do so, but my DB and I have talked about this and we absolutely would. We love our parents and want them to be happy and comfortable. They have spent their whole adult lives caring for us, it’s the least we can do. I would do the same for my MiL and my husband would do it for my parents. I think that’s just what one does for family.

I didn't suggest it was easy!

If you care about your family, of course it's not.

But top up fees by family ARE optional, because the council has a statutory duty to pay the care home fees if the person has inadequate income.

Families may pay top up fees to get a place in a nicer home, but that's completely different, or should be.

There are too many baby boomers starting to need care and too many younger generations hoping to inherit accumulated wealth to make it politically expedient to deal with the social care issue, despite the crippling effect it is having on the NHS and economy generally to bury our heads in the sand. Subsequent generations will likely have no NHS and little to no help with care - we’ll probably be told families (women) should care for their own demented family members and not expect the state to get involved. People will be blamed for their own poor health and poverty.

I would feel similarly OP. But re PILs not having made any provision for their old age - is there a cultural element at play? Because some families have a system whereby everything is paid down the generations for the benefit of the next generation (eg. education fully funded for children, early years of professional careers subsidised and supported, hefty assistance to purchase property etc.). So all resources (large or small) are paid forward with the understanding that that investment will be repaid by elder care (and everything else going torward the next generation). It can be difficult to be the first generation that breaks this cycle.

The top up fee can come from the older person’s income / savings. A financial assessment is done and from that it’s established how much the person can afford to pay towards their own care. There is no legal expectation or obligation for family members to pay. This is all laid out in the care act.

I think it’s lovely that your DH is thinking like that & rare. However I agree that perhaps it seems unfair and not something he can unilaterally decide. Rather than go looking for an argument I’d wait until it is a real ask. It might not happen. Also Average stay in care homes is only 6 months.

How do care home justify these costs ? I know they’ve got to pay for the up keep the home and pay staff but seriously how can it be £1500 a week?

They are all private now arnt they ? I don’t think the local authorities have ran them since the 90s?

Again are care home costs down to private companies running them as a business?

Completely unreasonable
Instead, you and dh should look after them at home 😉
Have you seen most care homes?
Terrible places
How can you think of sending loved ones there if there's a better option?

I don’t know of anyone that can afford to pay care home costs for their families out of their own pockets tbh..

Would his parents even want that? I know I wouldn’t. I have a private pension and a house so I assume I would pay for my own care but if I went to the most basic care home I think that would be fine for me anyway as I am quite a basic person anyway. Family make jokes about it. So I wouldn’t want my children paying for me to go to a better care home. As long as I wasn’t completely neglected then the basic cheap one would suit me. (I know there are variables and it would be more expensive if I needed special dementia care or similar).

i think you mean £1500 per week. My mothers care home feed, without extra nursing care, see around £7,000 per month (Brighton area). If her money runs out from house sale she’ll have to go to council accommodation and we can’t afford those fees.

What if they don’t have the room or facilities to care for loved ones ? What if they had relatives that need 24 hour care ? Like dementia which can sometimes require specialists help?

Not everyone can accommodate family to care for.

Why is only one sibling helping with care now, do they get carers allowance?

Are parents claiming attendance allowance yet?

How much have you put aside for old age @Whatsituation ? Unless people have a house that is worth substantial amount the average person would eventually run out of assets to pay for care home if they are in one for a number of years

But this isn't a given. My mother was in a very good care home, self funding (1700 per week), but many of the other residents were council funded. There was no observable difference in standards of care or accommodation. Mum was there for 14 months before she passed away. Funds were running low and we were going through the process of applying for council funding when she died.

My mil has a paid for place in a home by the council. However the social worker has guilted my oh into paying £509 extra per month to the home as a top up.
presumably spent on the upkeep of the owners Mercedes 🙄

At least do something if you truly want to help.
Pay what you can. £10 a month?
If you really can't then maybe, ensure you visit weekly.

Just like there is no legal expectation or obligation to contribute towards your child’s university fees or living expenses, and no expectation to even bother to visit your parents in their care home, or to protect them from abuse and fraud. There’s a highly lucrative criminal industry centred around the theft of elderly, demented people’s assets - sometimes involving collusion between social workers, solicitors, care homes and even blind eyes turned by the police. Save money for your frail, vulnerable old age and you are ripe for abuse; don’t save and you are ripe for abuse, too. If your own family doesn’t care much, you can be sure that nobody else does…

No, the average duration is 2.5 years, so if you have to sell your house to pay for your care (and possibly subsidise state-funders) you will likely have enough to pay. They also use your pension.

Well, there's legal responsibility and then there's moral responsibility - but each to their own, every situation is different.

I'm happy with the choices I've made and would do it all again 💐

It sounds like the council would have to fund but, as someone else has said, they’ll keep them at home as long as they can - beyond reasonableness imo. Although my council bragged that at home care costs were set at 80% of care home costs - my mum stayed at home and paid at £2k or so a month - this was a capped rate and she had 4 half hour calls that the social kept wanting to cut down.
Social care is in a dreadful state and covers stuff I would think falls into medical care - you can fight to get it classed as medical not social care, meaning it’s free, but the bar is extremely high.
I think actually the main issue will be that at some point, whilst at home, there will have to be some help from family I guess - think what you can do reasonably and then halve that was my best tip received and now passed on. Also be extremely firm with social care - I had to say I could and would do nothing whatsoever to get my mum (the very necessary) calls. I did quite a lot after this was put in place tbh and always expected to do so, but I’d learned a harsh lesson from a short term time of being left with both parents to look after - impossible, but they can’t care about you as they have so much on.
The biggest worry with paying for care - if for example they self fund - is the cash running out at some point and having to move them - such moves are very bad for the elderly impacting on health/mental well-being sadly, which is the point some families are able to step in but very few can and shouldn’t be expected to do so.
It just is not sustainable for most people - they may be there longer than expected- and that’s a sad conflict in your head tbh let alone all the rest of it.
Their family will want to do what’s best but often over extending themselves with care or cash - it’s good OP that you can see the pitfalls and the family need this or social care will use the emotional side to keep their care/books balanced where possible.

i think if they have no property owned and savings below a certain threshold then the council will pay.
I used to work in home care and a lady who was on the cusp of the savings threshold was told to keep spending her money otherwise her care at home wouldn’t be funded.

I remember a lady really really badly affected by dementia had carers 4 times a day but she needed to be in a home, she was distressed, didn’t know where she was or who anybody was. She was scared when the tv was on thinking people were in her house. awful. She owned her house and her kids never bothered with her.
I think she was kept at home because her children wanted the property- not for it to be used for care home fees. Not certain but that’s what I think as no way should she of been at home.