Are families really expected to pay for care home fees?

[Whatsituation]

I always thought it was paid for by savings or property owned by the person or if they had neither then paid by the government?

Dh has been telling me how if MIL/FIL ever needs to go into a home his siblings will expect us to contribute along with them for a ‘better’ home?? I’ve said no that’s not happening and it won’t be a better one just the same I assume but they will
habe money coming in from various places for each resident it’s not like there are council care home and private ones I assumed the council fund spaces wherever they are ?

He’s said I’m being unkind but there’s no way I’m spending money on care fees for his parents !

My family member went into a care home which was funded by the local authority as they did not have enough savings to fund themselves. I have not heard of ‘top up fees’ and the family were not asked to pay anything. (I went to all the meetings and that was never raised.)

Interested to know where you live.
Where I am care home fees are between £5000 and £6000 per month.

Agreed. Put your own oxygen mask on first.

Sounds like they’re CFs who have made no provisions for old age, and are planting seeds of their expectations with their DCs now, so that they won’t have to self fund.

Make your expectations clear now with DH, so there aren’t any surprises when you say no.

It seems like a rational option to me. Money is one of the major wedges that can drive a couple apart. Divorces can be cheap; depending on the level of care the PIL need and how long they live, even a divorce that required a solicitor may very well end up cheaper than a decade or more of care home fees.

7K to 8K for a very average home in the south east.

Your first three paragraphs are so very very true

A few issues here. I could probably afford to pay the £400 a month top up fees of some places where my mum lives currently. however, I couldn’t if they went up, which would mean moving my mum to somewhere cheaper-would that be fair? However, the best home we found is local authority funded (for her) and we are very happy with the surroundings and the care-it doesn’t stink of piss. I would say no now as it’s not fair to anyone to commit then have to withdraw. I’d look at homes that the local authority can cover and are nice. Start early, social workers for us were great but not all are!

Not dissimilar situation here. DH parents have made no plans for the future at all, barely worked or even paid enough NI to get full state pension. Some of his siblings think that we should all be paying for them in various ways. We can afford to (somewhat, not fully funding a care home or anything), but, maybe I am mean, I don't want to. We have savings for our children and our future. If I'd known those savings would be going to fund people who couldn't be bothered to save (or even work much) I'd just have spent it all!

Roughly half of all people in homes who are state-funded reside in the same homes as those who are self-funding. The self-funders subsidise the others.

well, it depends how much money his parents have.
if social services pay for the home, they will only pay a certain amount. If that doesn’t cover the care home fees in total then a “third party” can top up to pay the rest. If there’s no top up, they don’t get to stay in the nice home and would be shipped to a big standard home that wouldn’t be as nice.
so, for example, the care home my mum wants to move to is BEAUTIFUL and is £1350 a week. If, when she runs out of money, SS will only contribute £600 a week, we would have to pay the rest.

You won't find a care home anywhere at £1500 a month.

Contribute towards a “better” home? Well of course, if a younger person has no money and needs somewhere to live then you should (theroretically) be offered a council / housing association property which will be paid for (if you don’t have an income), but if you want a better standard of property (more rooms, nicer area, higher spec kitchen ect) then you must find the funds to pay for it yourself. That’s life.

Agree it was a terrible, stupid scandal the way the ‘dementia tax’ proposals were misrepresented. And we are all paying the price for it. Even if you have no elderly relatives to worry about, care home fees are where almost all our council tax payments are going - so if you’ve ever grumbled about trees being cut down locally, or libraries closing, or crappy bin collection services, or fees for going to the tip - it’s because all your council’s money is going on elderly care. It’s a public policy disaster.

Why can't your mum pay her own top up fees? Genuine question.

If people need to go into a care home, it's usually because they're a single occupant of their home. They have a state pension and likely attendance allowance, given that they need to go into a care home, so close to £1500 pm coming in as a minimum and they don't have to run a home, all their needs are covered at the care home.

Even if they still had to pay council tax, insurance and utility standing charges while their own home is sold, they have enough to pay these and top up fees of the amounts quoted, as well as still having a bit of personal money.

I think it’s pretty unusual for people who can’t afford to pay care home fees to end up in one unless there is really serious dementia at play.

It’s moved far more to people staying in their own homes and carers going in because it’s much cheaper.

My husband and I have worked full-time all our lives.
We have been sensible and cautious with money, modest lifestyle and savings for rainy day/retirement fund.
Our joint income is £80 K per year.
My MIL has a champagne lifestyle and a sense of entitlement which is off the scale (think fur coat no knickers) lives in rented accommodation and has never saved any money (it has been spend, spend, spend her whole life). This has meant us paying towards essential items/household repairs at different times.
We have been 'told' by her and other family members we will be expected to contribute to care home costs when the time comes.

Really? Trust me it is a hill l am prepared to die on!

SS will only contribute £600 a week, we would have to pay the rest.

This cannot be correct. If the person is not capable of living alone, and the family step away, the Council has a statutory duty to find a care home place and to finance it, whatever that costs.

They will of course fight tooth and nail to provide cheaper and inadequate home care, and take advantage of whatever physical care and costs they can make the family pick up, but that's a different story.

Brilliant suggestion.

I've never come across this.
OP - is DH planning to be topping up fees for youe DPs too?

I'm blown away by the number of people who wouldn't be prepared to contribute anything. Not even like £100 a month?

Nope. I would outright refuse to contribute to care home fees, not one penny.

Some people live for years in a care home. Imagine how it could spiral...to cover top up fees of £450 a month you start off paying £150 each, you and two siblings. Fine. Then one of your siblings dies and the other hits financial skids and has to stop cobtributing...and of course, these fees have been going up annually by up to 10%. Five years later, your reasonable £150 a month has turned into a £700 a month sole burden and you're fucked. Then you get to choose whether to carry on or be solely responsible for ripping mum or dad out of the home they've known for several years.

Absolutely not. I will never allow my circumstances to be included in the decision for which home my mum went into, if that was necessary. Take her for lunch? Pay for a haircut? Other adhoc treats? Absolutely. Commit to paying essentially a huge, increasing rental bill for an unknown number of years? No.

I love my mum but I love my children more. And my money is, largely, going down the line not up. I wouldn't expect my dc to pay for my care either.

In ptactice though the cost drops when the person is paid for by the LA. They usually pay about 60% of what self funders are charged. So not only do those who have provided for their old age get to pay for themselves in a care home, they also get to subsidise those who have been less prudent/fortunate.

That sounds about right to me.
Such as if you want your children to go private the LA doesn't work out how much it would cost to go local and then let you just top up. I think you get what's given and if it's not good enough you pay the full amount elsewhere. And it's a fortune.

Completely normal. My mum and siblings all put in to pay for my Nan to be in a nicer home, over 20 years ago now. I think there was 5/6 of them that contributed, a few hundred a month each. This was just a tip up as well, the council did fund a big chunk. She was a council tenant previously who had no savings and owned no property. They still had to pay a top up if they wanted her to be somewhere nice.

Councils would not ask families to contribute. They would let them know that they’d have a greater choice if the funded it, but they would not ask them to fund it.

It can be a steep learning curve as elderly parents need more support. But rarely is it a case of going straight from fully independent lives at home to full care in a nursing home. Most people start to need more help gradually. Some are resistant to accepting any help, others want to be waited on like royalty.

Having been through this recently, I would heartily recommend getting some practical things in place asap. First make sure your ILs have Powers of Attorney set up - both kinds (Health & Wellbeing and Financial). Then try to persuade them to discuss their thoughts about how they want to be cared for as they become frail with their GPs and to set up Respect forms. They are not legally binding and can be changed but they give medics guidance on their wishes in the event of any health incidents. For example do they want to be kept alive every time (including full resuscitation, drips, force fed etc) or is quality of life and comfort more important. Or do they want an approach that’s in the middle. Once my DF got one of these, the response in hospital was much more in tune with his wishes. He had a lot of blue light situations in his final years.

Most healthcare professionals try to keep people independent in their own homes for as long as possible. This often means a lot of work for the families - increasingly regular visits, taking to healthcare appointments, helping them manage medication, dealing with life admin and home maintenance. The list is long and grows longer as they age.

So you need to be encouraging your DH to focus on what his parents need now and going forward rather than just simply saying he’ll generously dole out money from your joint savings if necessary. He and his siblings (particularly if majority are brothers) may already have an inkling of what’s coming and be wanting to appear to be ‘good’ children providing for parents’ care, but in reality not want to be dealing with the real care they will require.

And in the meantime I would also move any savings earmarked for your DCs and other things into less accessible pots.