Are families really expected to pay for care home fees?

[Whatsituation]

I always thought it was paid for by savings or property owned by the person or if they had neither then paid by the government?

Dh has been telling me how if MIL/FIL ever needs to go into a home his siblings will expect us to contribute along with them for a ‘better’ home?? I’ve said no that’s not happening and it won’t be a better one just the same I assume but they will
habe money coming in from various places for each resident it’s not like there are council care home and private ones I assumed the council fund spaces wherever they are ?

He’s said I’m being unkind but there’s no way I’m spending money on care fees for his parents !

Well yes, actually you will find millionaires in the same place as fully state funded people. The place my mother was in, she was very wealthy and about 40% of the other residents were council funded. All treated absolutely equally, no idea which was which! it's one of the reasons care is so expensive, councils have a maximum amount they will pay so the private residents are paying a great deal more.

There are very few council run care homes any more. In my mother’s very good care home, residents who were council-funded enjoyed exactly the same care and facilities as those who were self-funded. The fact is that self-funders help to subsidise the others - self-funded fees are considerably more than the council pays.

And BTW, from far too much experience of such things, I’d say it’s unwise to assume that the more expensive a care home is, the better it must be. We looked at a good many for both my FiL and for DM, and one thing I came to believe is that ‘Homes and Gardens’ type decor, ditto any ‘luxury’ appearance, is often there to impress relatives who are choosing, and certainly does not automatically translate into excellent care, with cheerful, friendly staff.

Im not convinced the discussion on this thread is genuine. Whoever it is, if you want a political debate, be open about who you are.

I'm with you OP, if you can't afford a fancy home, you have the Council funded home. End of. My in-laws have always been careful with money, and it'd take some time for them to be on council funded care.

Your last sentence is a bit odd. Are you unaware that care homes are private businesses? Businesses exist to make profit. If they don’t make a profit, then they won’t exist. How the owner choses to spend their money isn’t really your business.

What normally happens round here (Tunbridge Wells area V expensive care home fees. ) Is that the council top end residential payment is £770. Whilst the average cost is £1500 (these are WEEKLY !) .. so the council have to look for homes that will take the resident for the price the council can pay. This inevitably means the elderly person being relocated to Hastings or Bexhill and the normally elderly spouse forced to travel for hours every week just to visit.
Family pay a top up to keep them close.
However as you can see that top up can be the same again or even more than the council rate. I don’t know many families who would pay £800 a week top up - on the other hand I don’t know anyone who has neither savings or property by the time they need care .

Slightly off topic, but I worked as a carer in a private very expensive chain of care homes in south of England whilst at uni. It LOOKED great. Nice furniture, beautiful environment. But the food was appalling quality and there were far too few staff to meet the needs of the residents, it was frankly UNSAFE. Looking back it was shocking. There was a huge turnover of staff , all on minimum wage of course. Whilst I’ve never worked in a council funded care home, I would be shocked if the quality of care was any worse.

Welcome to middle age.

If you have assets including pension over a certain level you are considered to be self paying in the care home world. The Local Authority will expect you to meet your care home costs until they are low enough and then they will do so.

Being a self pay care home resident gives you some choice over which care home to select. The fees will vary.
Your OH simply wants family to pay in order for his parent to have that choice.
Local Authority homes do not always have great reputations. Then again, nor do some private ones. The CQC who monitor homes in my opinion are weak and the staff who monitor them not able enough to handle any potential conflict with owners and managers. So don't.

Whether you do put into a communal pot is up to you as a family. Because people are alive for longer ( note I do not say always living), this issue of social care has become a thing. Some entrepreneurial souls see money in it and have made a fortune out of care home fees.

You do not pay care home fees if you have assets but have what the NHS considers a need for Nursing care. Trying to get that agreed is very very hard.

But it is all on the internet.

It won't be just money that you give. When people age it will be your time too. It is hard. It can be divisive in families. People throw expectations onto each other. And can be rather unforgiving and understanding.

When it is time for them to go into a care home and they need to begin by self funding make sure it is one that will take local authority funded residents.
Both care homes and local authorities are very secretive when it comes to money although it is well known that council funded residents are subsidised by private residents.
The care homes are similar standards regardless - the private ones have certain extras which many of the residents are not in a position to use (bar, outings, fancy entertainment). But can get a rogue one whichever category they are in where care is poor and staffing levels are minimal.
The family money can come in useful for extras like hairdressing, clothes and more frequent chiropody as the local authority will take all pension money and just leave about £20 to cover toiletries and essentials.
And would be a good idea to find one that can extend to specialist dementia care and nursing.

Care homes are often happy to keep residents on if they can afford to self-fund for the first couple of years before resorting to care funded by the council. Otherwise, when the money dries up they may be unceremoniously booted out unless family step in to cover the gap in funding. Obviously, some children may not care if their frail parent is left massively distressed and moved many miles away from any family to a facility they do not feel safe in, but other children find this weighing on their conscience…

Pretty sure the council only fund to a certain amount so more expensive care homes wouldn't be feasible. There is a vast difference between care homes, so I understand why they would want the best for their mum. Is this an imminent problem? Otherwise, I wouldn't spend too much time worrying about it, but if it's in conversation then just say to the siblings you don't have the means to contribute much.

BTW, just to add, I gather that a French friend of a dd (working in the U.K.) is expected according to French law, to contribute €250 a month towards the care of her DF, which she resents very much, since he was apparently an utterly feckless waster and a useless dad.

I agree with your viewpoint that they should have made plans for their old age. However , you are where you are. What would you do if it was your parents?

Instead, you and dh should look after them at home 😉

Seriously????

And that’s the point - Social Workers will do their best to guilt you into topping up fees, having a relative live with you etc etc, but none of its legally enforceable

If they have no savings or assets then the LA will pay. But it won’t be a very nice home then end up in.

I think many/most families probably do contribute to the cost of care, and/or it comes out of their eventual inheritance

but I think it’s unfair of op and her dh to stump up if the parents have literally made no plans for their future

They can’t make you do anything, if you can’t afford it then there’s nothing they can do. Care homes are extortionate anyway!!

PIL savings will pay for care (if they have some) initially, but their children can contribute more if they wish. once their savings go below a certain amount, the local authority then contributes towards the care (they can still stay in the same nicer home; this was my relative’s experience) - so they were still paying, but less per month. Unfortunately they passed away, and at this point, they still had savings left, so didn’t get that far down the line, that their property had to be sold, but presume that’s what would’ve happened.

Your DH can’t just agree to pay, without your agreement. Maybe make a plan to see what you could hypothetically afford and be upfront with his siblings from the start, and don’t budge.

That was a bit of sarcasm
I just meant contribute something, afyer all the son is willing, but it doesn't have to be a lot
Or look after them yourselves.
But to just say council care home will be fine, is just uncaring in my opinion.

Except, as others have already pointed out, many care homes have a mix of self-funders and council-funded residents, and the former are paying the care home a lot more than the council is paying for the latter. If you have self-funded for long enough, the care home may accept getting a lower rate from the council to keep you on there when your money runs out. Alternatively, the care home and council may decide you need to be moved on to somewhere cheaper, if you have not paid the full whack for long enough to make up for the drop in funding for the care home. There will, no doubt, be another elderly person able to pay full price to take your place, after all.

If they are in a care home they are paying for, and it could just be the same care home but a nicer room or floor, then it is usually incredibly disorientating and upsetting to move someone which is why family continue to pay so that they can prevent that.

Some of the non top up homes I wouldn’t want to put my dog in yet alone a relative. I visit many many homes as part of my job and on the whole you get what you pay for.

My sister and I pay 500 a month each to allow my mother to be in a very nice care home

@Whatsituation I can't understand how you can just say no without knowing how much top up is. If it's 200 p month÷ 4 I think you are unreasonable for ex. Ask for details before making a desicion. Or do you really dislike your PIL?

There’s a huge variation in homes. The LA will give you a list of homes they will fund and it involves you visiting them and seeing which you prefer. With FIL, I found one not on the list they gave me, but was actually accepting of LA funding and it was lovely. You just need to put the legwork in.

Do you actually know how much it's being suggested that you contribute? That's the first thing you need to find out before you start putting your foot down over not helping.

No decent child is going to begrudge their elderly parent 60 quid a month. But if it's hundreds/thousands of pounds that you either don't have or can't afford without a substantial impact on your/your children's lives, you're going to have to have a very frank conversation with your husband, and your husband is going to have to explain your position to his family.

Personally there's nothing I wouldn't be willing to sacrifice to ensure my parents had the best possible care, and if my partner were to think they could unilaterally decide that we wouldn't be contributing financially towards it, that would be an extremely serious issue.