Are families really expected to pay for care home fees?

[Whatsituation]

I always thought it was paid for by savings or property owned by the person or if they had neither then paid by the government?

Dh has been telling me how if MIL/FIL ever needs to go into a home his siblings will expect us to contribute along with them for a ‘better’ home?? I’ve said no that’s not happening and it won’t be a better one just the same I assume but they will
habe money coming in from various places for each resident it’s not like there are council care home and private ones I assumed the council fund spaces wherever they are ?

He’s said I’m being unkind but there’s no way I’m spending money on care fees for his parents !

So did she have no home to sell? Was she renting?

So if family refuse to pay top up fees, who do you think pays it

Not everyone has family. Not everyone has family who can afford even £100 a month. So I’d imagine that whatever happens to those people would be what would happen to someone who did have family but they were refusing to pay.

Has he given any thought to how he would fund the top up needed for a place in one of the nicer care homes?

Because that’s what the sale of the property covers. Children aren’t a safety net to pay for parents care home fees.

I work in Adult Social Care in a LA. We have contracts with almost all the care homes in the area. We fund care placements where people have no assets or savings.

There are a few who refuse our rates and, if a person or their family want them to go there, we pay our rate and the family pay a third party top up. It doesn't happen very often. All the people we fund are in the same homes as people with assets and savings, so they have the same facilities and level of care. I love my mum dearly but wouldn't top up her care, as I really don't think there's any benefit to doing so. Thankfully she has assets/savings so it's unlikely to ever be an issue.

There are lots of options to consider before thinking about care homes. If your parents haven't had a care needs assessment, talk to them about this - a social worker will come and assess them and then talk about aids, adaptations, care at home etc. Very few people go from having no formal care at home to a car home - usually only if they have a huge change in function following , for example, a massive stroke

In my LA we have a large number of Extra Care schemes which might suit your parents. People have their own flat with kitchen, living room. Bedroom, bathroom etc but there are a residents lounge and restaurant with a hot lunch every day. Crucially, there's also a care team on site 24/7. So lots of support but also independence and your own home.

Most people don't go into a care home. I can't remember the figures but it's something like 14% of over 85s go into a care home.

It might be different in other parts of the UK but my DM was fully funded by the local council although she was expected to contribute her pensions but she was placed in a private home, not a council home. It wasn't our choice of home (I had hoped she would be more local, or at least on a bus route) but equally it wasn't the first home they offered. It was a beautiful house in gorgeous grounds and she was so well looked after.

My point is that even though she was in a private home I was not expected to contribute anything to her care and she had nothing but her pension.

If it becomes clear that a care home is needed, then you absolutely need the numbers laid bare so you can have a realistic discussion, based on needs for PILs and your family.

Only then can you make a decision.

As I keep saying ad nauseam, when certain obstacles disappear, I'm out of this country back to mine, revoking my passport, never to look back

What country does fancy care homes with no expectations of people paying for their own care? I'm not from the UK and my experience is most other places expect far more from families in terms of support for their elders.

I think a lot depends on whereabouts you are. Here in Surrey, there are very few available fully-funded LA places (I’ve got a friend who runs a charity that funds top-ups for older people in need).

Clearly not true on either front. She can't 'not have the money' as she has her pension and likely attendance allowance if she needs to be in a care home, so she absolutely has the money.

Plus no-one else is legally responsible for paying. No-one is required to pay for the needs or choices of their relatives unless they have entered into a contract to do so.

OP you are not 'expected' to pay for your PILs care needs. They have their pensions and likely other income such as private pensions or benefits entitlements plus LA will fund what they need. Of course, standing your ground with DHs siblings when they're adamant you should contribute is going to be difficult and likely cause a family rift. Are they all much better off than you?

Id leave someone who would make it difficult for me to contribute to my parents care if that's what I wanted to do with our money. There is no way they could just say no.

If you tried to give money away that put my DCs in financial hardship, you wouldn't have to leave, because you would have already been ejected from the premises.

There are hardly any council run care homes left in the UK. In any event, the funding model is the same for the vast majority of homes. Only the very top notch private homes don't take state funded residents.
If you have less than about £23K in assets and savings you are state funded. The state pays about half of the cost of the room and the self funders pay the rest, as well as their own fees. For that reason alone I would not be happy to to contribute to costs. The family will already be paying for toiletries, hair cuts, chiropody, and any other treats or extras. It all mounts up.
The care home takes the state pension as part of the fees.
The resident is supposed to be allowed a small amount of their pension to buy a newspaper, some sweets and so on, but it is a tiny amount.
Then you have to factor in the cost of the lost glasses, clothes, shoes, teeth, hearing aids. The care home won't pay for those. It can get very expensive.

You can decide for yourself, but you can't make this decision for your husband. If he wants to spend some of his money on care home fees for his parents, and cut back elsewhere, that's his right.

Most people won't end up in a care home (only about 2.5% of those over 65). How likely is it that your PIL will end up in a care home? Do they already have health conditions that make it more likely?

Irrespective of the above, you and your DH have a fundamental difference of opinion that I would really sort out now - in your own mind, at least; if not together. Exactly what are you prepared to lose here? At the extreme end of the scale, are you prepared to divorce over it? Is a compromise to help support PIL care costs for a set amount of time or up to a set amount of money? What would you do if it reaches that point and DH wants to contribute more than you initially agreed? You don't have to take any action now, but I would seriously consider options and end outcome so, if it does come down to it, you're not rushed into a panicked decision.

What is "financial hardship" though? Children don't need much (though they want a lot) and they're going to grow up and be able to make their own way in the world.

I suspect your DH doesn’t know how much they cost! If the PILs rent and have no savings or assets, they’ll be eligible for State funded carers at home and then eventually (if needed) residential care. But typically both the carers and care homes are privately run and local councils outsource to private companies. There’s no state-run homes now (that I’m aware of).

These days, a lot of councils prefer to keep people in their own homes for as long as possible (with the support of carers calling up to 4 times per day). I have a friend whose dad has advanced dementia and he still lives at home. He has carers 4 x a day and the family take it in turns to go in and sit with him for a few hours every day too. They also have cameras in the house so they can keep an eye on him. Their view is that he’s getting just as good care that way, as he would in a home. Their dad’s dementia has left him very docile so he sleeps most of the time. It would be very different if he was still mobile. However, the emotional and physical toll on the family is huge.

The point is, it’s easy to theorise about these things until it actually happens. People think they’ll just magic up thousands of pounds a month to put mum or dad into a boutique care hotel but it rarely works like that.

@C152 Yeah, MN is full of tales of DP/PILs who's care costs rinsed through the value of a family home in the SE but in reality, only a very small percentage of people need this amount of care and most people who need care have the cost covered by the LA and possibly the pension of the person who needs care.

No you're not expected to contribute . The best thing yo can do for your elderly relllies is , while theh still have capacity, advise them to put a DNAR on their medical records which will save them the indignity of being blue lighted to hospital and laid on a trolley for 3 days with a whole load of other poor, frail souls

I agree with you on the principle, but when you're actually in the headspace of thinking about your parent being in a care home, it's horrible. I don't know if that's something that your DH can see coming for some reason, or he is just thinking hypothetically (in which case there's not much point spending time and energy talking about it). If it's genuinely looking likely, I think you need to be more compassionate in your tone. That doesn't mean a different outcome, but you need to try to understand where he is coming from and why.

If you are the more financially savvy in your marriage, he maybe just hasn't thought it through. You say you've saved and planned carefully for the future. He might be taking a lot for granted until you explain the reality of committing to care costs.

You could go further to ringfence the funds you have saved and planned, e.g. this JISA is specifically DS uni, this savings account is DD house deposit, this is our early retirement fund or whatever. That way, if you are ever asked to dip into savings, it is a clear decision on what you would be sacrificing.

Divorce doesn't seem like a rational option. One could save the money that would be spent on lawyers' fees and spend it on care instead.

How much is your husband suggesting you pay?

NhS care home V private are totally different and as previous posters have said some private care homes can be approx 10k per month.

It's all relative. If it was about some savings fund we have for the DC as adults vs my parent's care now, or fewer holidays vs their care, then I would want to the money to go to their care

How can this be right? Surely no expectation can be laid at anyone else’s door, the children in this scenario may have no money above their own expenses. Or no contact with the parent.

I think I would approach it from a different angle OP. Your savings are joint and could well be frittered away.

He and his siblings need to get a breakdown of costs and a figure that will be coming from all of them weekly/monthly. Including the rising costs bit as time goes on. Factor in how many years they could be in there and have the can everyone genuinely commit to it conversation.

It's all very well saying yes, but I don't think a lot of people realise just how much care home fees are