Why is it taboo to admit you are having children because you want to be looked after when old?

[KeenTaupeDog]

I’ve noticed that any time someone hints at this, people jump down their throats — “children aren’t your pension,” “that’s selfish,” etc.
But if we’re being honest, this used to be the whole point of having kids. In many cultures it still is. Even here, plenty of parents quietly hope their kids will care about them when they’re elderly — not just emotionally, but practically.
We act as if you’re only supposed to have children out of pure love or to “nurture the next generation,” and that expecting any return is somehow shameful. Yet everyone still wants family nearby when they’re frail, lonely or ill.
Why is it socially unacceptable to say the quiet part out loud? Is it because we’ve built an ideology of self-sufficiency that makes dependence feel dirty — even though in reality, we’ll all need someone in the end?
Not trying to be provocative, genuinely curious what people think.

You know in some cultures, it would be considered "unthinkable" to allow strangers to provide such personal care for your loved one. A total violation of privacy and dignity.

I think we have to accept that there is no one way to view any of this. All we have are the values and norms of our culture.

Hmmm, even in those cultures, its never the men doing it though is it?

Funny that.

If I live long enough I’ll be 96 and my eldest 80 I don’t expect to be looked after by my children if anything it will be my grandchildren. I think it’s better to have them younger so you’re around for longer, but I see all the time some who waited till 40 acting like they’re better than everyone else

No chance. The moment I can't look after myself, hopefully this country will allow people the dignity of the equivalent of Dignitas.

I had children because I had the biological urge and wanted to satisfy it. What my children do with their own lives is entirely up to them. My eldest is an adult and planning to work/live abroad after he graduates next year and I'm glad he has a plan. I would have hated to make him feel his choices were constrained because his dad and I expect care in due course.

My parents are in their 80s and luckily still living independently but I am not and will not be in a position to look after them as (a) i live 3 hours drive away (b) work full time and will do for many more years and (c) still have a school age child to care for. I don't think they ever expected care but it just wouldn't be possible anyway.

What about people who have disabled children who will always need care and never be in a position to offer care?

Hardly anyone I know lives where their parents are anyway

Because your kids are under no obligation to even speak to you ever again over the age of 18. Never mind wipe your arse when you're 97.

I don't know about "never". What do you think happens when there aren't any daughters?

Many of them are also more accepting of more rigid conjugal roles than we are in our society. Tbh, the only reason that we don't have a more "traditional" setup where I stay home and do the majority of caregiving is because it is too hard to thrive on one income.

That's a bit dramatic!

Even if you wanted to force them to care for you (and I can't imagine you'd particularly enjoy the level of care you'd get from people who are forced to do it), you'd be maybe 80 and trying to overpower somebody in their 40s or 50s; and it's not even like you could use the law to back you!

I think most of the people who have it in their plans that their children will care for them in old age understand that the children do have agency in whether or not they are willing.

My husband is from a middle eastern culture- I dont know any men that would actually do personal care for their mothers themselves.

Even regardless of culture, it's not practical for someone to give up their job to care for a parent as you say.

When my gran was in her 80s/90s my mum was in her 60s and dealing with cancer.

When my mum was in her 70s/80s I was working very full time with my own dc to look after so what I could do for her was mostly limited to one or two at most visits a week.

Many cultures who have kids to look after them in old age have a very different setup to the UK where in most families, both men and women need to work FT to keep their own families heads above water so have little time for caring for elderly parents.

Yes, this. To be fair, in most cases in these cultures, even if they have very marked out roles of what work men and women do for the family/community, that doesn't mean that the men don't do any work at all and the women do all of it.

There are many cases where, even after decades in the UK, only the men speak fluent English and the women only know a very few words - often for very questionable reasons, mind, imho - thus it's very clear that all of the gainful employment will need to be covered by the men, whilst the womenfolk are expected to do all of the home-based tasks and caring for children and elderly family members.

Presumably their wives are expected to do it all? Even if you only have sons yourself, there can always be DILs.

It would be nice if social security and the NHS were so effective that old people need have no qualms. Nowadays you need someone to advocate for you to make sure you get proper care and treatment, and even to make sure you get food and water and a clean bed in some cases. However, having children does not guarantee that they will be willing or able to take this on.

That might have been true for men, but women had the risk of childbirth. I think I once read that the average life expectancy for a woman in Manchester was only 17.

It genuinely didn’t enter my head. I have boys and I’m not sure they’ll be looking after me at all!

My mother had children for entirely the wrong reasons. One of which was she fully expected us to look after her as soon as we were legally adults. (Take her shopping, on holidays, give her money so she didn't have to work etc). It was seen as our duty, as she'd birthed and raised us and we owed her. She is not a nice woman, our childhood was emotionally neglectful and I ended up needing therapy to recover from it. Neither myself or my sister have seen her for about 15 years.

I now have 2 daughters. My only hope is that I'm doing enough of a good job raising them, that they will still want to know me when they are adults. They will never owe me anything.

Pretty sure my gran wouldn't have had 7 kids if she could have access to birth control. The only reason she stopped at 7 was because her dh died. They became poorer with each child.

For many people, having children was a massive burden. I'm not sure enough people would have then lived long enough to need care from them.

I have an absolute horror of the ravages of old age, weakness and illness. I hope to end it for myself, so my children don't even have to consider helping me. I think everyone should have the right to end it for themselves easily and painlessly.

It’s wrong because you shouldn’t objectify people for your own use (or any other reason). It’s OK to marry for sex, security, children or whatever floats your boat, because the other person is in agreement - this is why we look down on people who conceal their motives in relationships.
It’s not OK to expect children or anyone else to take on the burden of caring without their informed consent.

Times have changed and evolved, thankfully. I think having a child specifically so you have (supposedly) a guaranteed carer in the future is reprehensible, not to mention naive.

If you are a subsistence farmer you need male children to work on the farm (which is why girls are often seen as a burden and not wanted). I don’t think that really applies in 21st century Britain.

No way did I have kids for them to look after me in my old age. I hope they see the world, have adventures and think only of themselves, their spouses and kids.

Good luck with that. Judging by some of the comments on Mumsnet, you've got more chance of being looked after by a stranger on a bus stop. Anyway, I don't think most people in the UK think about elderly care when having children. Although strangely enough my SIL suggested her daughter have a baby for that very reason. Even though the DD viscerally hated kids and was 100% a career woman.

Because it’s a fucking stupid reason to have kids!

Historically maternal mortality was higher than it is now, between 0.5%-1.5%, but not as high as infant mortality which peaked at about 30% in London.
Childbirth has never been the top cause of death for women.