We are being labelled disrespectful and I disagree over funeral

[Bluehummingbird]

We don’t agree with so don’t attend funerals. It’s part of a wider belief system we have devised part of it being to see those we care about as much as possible and do as much as we can for anyone we love who is ill or needs support.

Recently FIL passed after a long illness. We helped with care, spent a lot of time with him and supported MIL which we continue to do. We were with him in hospital and were able to say goodbye.

The issue is that we didn’t go to the funeral. We’ve had nasty comments from family members (who never bothered to see him or help MIL as they ‘lived too far away’ and who managed to travel though to the funeral and stuff their faces afterwards as they told us they even managed to take food for the journey home then the next sentence calling us out for behaviour).

SIL said it wasn’t fair she had to step up to help with funeral arrangements. I said to her ‘we arranged the care, we did all the hospital appts, I cleaned the house for MIL and we looked after the dog when they needed a break so it was your turn to do something’

Everyone is saying dh can’t have been able to say goodbye properly but he did - in the hospital? It’s like we don’t need to physically go to church each week to feel close to god or worship we don’t feel the need to go to a set place on a set day to say goodbye to someone who isn’t there any more and we find it performative.

I know most people do funerals but I’m struggling with having to repeatedly explain our position on this and we try to be good people and want to be judged on our actions for the last few years not for the 1 hour service and then the few hours after wake that we missed ?

Try our best to avoid weddings ….. 😁

The 'wake' part of the funeral (as in, we call the getting together bit after the funeral service a wake) can often be quite jovial - laughter breaks the tension and helps people regulate again after the emotion of the funeral service.

I wonder that too. Really early in this thread someone said that a lot of their family are planning direct cremations, and that other members of the family are upset about it. One reason they're upset is because they haven't seen each other for a long time and having no funerals mean they can't get together.

But I agree with you. The time for a get together could be a wedding anniversary or a birthday, or just a "we haven't seen each other for a long time, let's organise a special whole family get together".

To me, funerals seem an odd time to think of it as a get together and have a catch up.

Or if your DC organise a funeral for your DH you wouldn't go to that?

No-one is invited to a funeral. All who wish to come do so. The bereaved don't send out 'save the day' cards etc. A notice on various social media, the local paper, and word of mouth summons the mourners (in general - I doubt anyone not 'invited' was allowed into HMLQ's funeral).

I found my Mum's funeral really moving. Well over 150 people gathering together to talk about her, how much she meant to so many people, how she made them laugh... The humanist eulogy was lovely, telling her story, and my Dad, although heartbroken, took comfort from the love of all the community around him.

I've been to some pretty difficult funerals and some stilted ones, and some that were celebrations of a life well lived.

Others can attend if it comforts them. I'm not a fan of doing things so as 'not to rock the boat'.
I have attended funerals out of duty and 'to give comfort to others' in the past. Horrible experience and it didn't help me one bit with dealing with my feelings of loss.

I lost my kid. I wanted a direct cremation and was bullied into having a funeral. It was fucking traumatising and I'll never forgive those who made me. Those, who incidentally weren't really around before she died and I haven't seen them since.

People use them to have a catch up and to get some free grub.

Agree that funerals are for the living -- a right of passage for a community to acknowledge a change and honour the dead. It doesn't have to be a funeral of course, there are many sorts of remembrance rituals or means of acknowledgement. Most people prefer to do this in a community setting, to support each other and solidify bonds. That said, nobody is obligated to do so if it is too painful. And you're within your rights to prefer a different method. But expect people not to understand.

OP I realised that you were ND within your first couple of replies, but of course asking someone on here if they are ND instantly brings on the "stop blaming everything on ND" brigade so I didn't ask.

You sound like good people who really stepped up when you were needed. However as many others have pointed out, attending the funeral would also have been stepping up, this time to support your MIL. I find it strange that that never occurred to you or your DH at the time? Is MIL also ND?

I realise that in the UK funerals are regarded very differently to here in Ireland. Here there's no such thing as inviting anyone, people just turn up, it's seen as supporting the living in their hour of need.

We also see funerals as a rite of passage, whether religious or not. The person dies, is waked, either at home or in the funeral parlour, and then is given a send-off, either in church or crematorium. People remember the person they loved, the things they did and said, and it's a wonderful way for family and friends to connect. Usually from death to burial/cremation is 3/4 days. Oh and we have no problem with children attending, it's a way for kids to learn that life is finite and "in the midst of life we are in death".

What I'm trying to say is that a funeral can be an affirmative action, your loved one lived, has died, and now we say our goodbyes with love and affection. This is why this statement jarred me: When someone has passed we also don’t refer to them in the past tense.

What does that mean, do you literally talk about your FIL in the present tense? So, "let's go and visit mum and dad this afternoon"? Is that not very confusing for your small children?

I totally agree with you. I don't go to funerals either. None. I will support the bereaved family in any other way I can, but I will not attend a funeral.

I don't get the food and drink thing after a funeral,

You don't think it is polite to provide refreshmant for people who might have travelled a long way to attend a funeral?

It would have been more disrespectful and a monumental waste of money for someone to have paid for food and have no-one eat anything.

they just taint your good memories of the deceased when they were alive.

?? @zaxxon
What a weird thing to say. At every funeral I have attended the eulogies were very interesting and complimentary about the deceased. No-one slags the deceased person off at funerals in my experience.

I'm so sorry, @gamerchick

I think any 'belief system' you devise should take into account the impact it has on others. Because what's happened here is that you've centred yourself in something that was meant to be about someone else.
You don't have to believe in a final goodbye in order to attend and show respect to those who do. Instead you've created a situation whereby you and your 'belief system' are in the spotlight and people will be talking about you and it when your absence is questioned.
It all seems a bit main character to me in all honesty. And sometimes it's appropriate to blend into the background, do the least attention seeking thing, and let the person its all about be the focus.

I think the mistake @Bluehummingbird made was framing their non attendance as a "belief system".

Out of curiosity,what exactly do you not agree with? The concept of funerals? It's traditionally considered the last respect whether you like it or not. And it is especially disrespectful if the son (i.e. your husband) missed his father's funeral.

Wow. This is the most bonkers thread I've read for ages 😂.

You can't just randomly call some crackpot ideas of yours a 'belief system'!!

The tradition in my area is to provide a meal for those who have travelled to the funeral - it's basically a courtesy, not a wake.

When my husband's family members said that they couldn't attend his funeral I was taken aback when they said that they wanted 'us' to hold a 'celebration of life' and 'wake' some time later in the summertime.

Firstly, DH's funeral was a celebration of his life. Secondly, I couldn't bear the trauma of going through it all again. Finally, my distinct impression was that I was being expected to make all the arrangements that they wanted.

I'd had to organise the funeral on my own, accommodate their wishes and also to comply with their requests that I source copies of the different newspapers with the obituary and send it to them - to two different households - and then to send copies of the Order of Service beforehand to three different households. (One family member was in tertiary education and accommodated elsewhere. I'd thought that their parent could send that on for me, but apparently not.)

I promise you that I was poleaxed at the time. I managed because I had to.

Your rude and quite frankly disrespectful and repeatedly stating we don't do funerals doesn't make you less so

This is too simplistic and misses the point that lots of people do this as well.

At my Dads funeral people were there he went to school with, to uni with, he worked with, he know from his various clubs and societies and cousins, second cousins etc. Of course you look around and think these people are only here together because of Dad and Dad is missing but it was so lovely to hear stories and see how many people loved and respected him. I didn’t find that pointless, after watching him decline so shockingly after a long illness it helped me remember him properly again.

Completely understand why people find funerals hard and choose not to go although I think if it matters to those who are left that you go then you should. Funerals are emotionally draining, they can cost a fortune and you do sometimes get performative grief from people who didn’t seem that bothered about the deceased when they were alive and people who eat all the sandwiches. I have no issue with anyone choosing direct cremation etc but in this case there was a funeral and I do think it was naive of the OP and her DH not to expect negativity for not attending and trying to explain it by saying funerals aren’t part of our belief system won’t really make sense to most people.

Even though you say your FiL knew his son would not attend his funeral, and both PiLs accepted this, I think you were disrespectful and unkind. Would your MiL have preferred to have your DH at her side? His sister, aunt and uncle, and other attendees, would definitely have appreciated the support. Even at the unhappiest funerals there is huge comfort in sharing stories about the deceased. Attending a funeral is a way to show kindness and support to the living, to show that the deceased person is not 'gone and forgotten'. You claim this is a tenet of your beliefs but don't follow through.

"You didn't support your husband's mother on the most difficult day of her life"... the husband went and stayed with his mother on that day and the ones that followed so she wouldn't be alone.

"I would much rather clean the house and look after the dog than arrange a funeral"... let's just ignore the fact these things were mentioned in context of the ongoing arrangement of care, hospital appointments and giving the parents a break when needed.

"I don't like funerals but I had to go and let me tell you about me and my experience and how hard it was for me, me ,me "... but you're so self-centred OP.

Post after post with the sole intention of doing nothing more than give the OP a good kicking all the while telling the OP how rude she is. A lovely way to spend a Saturday. Well done MN.

Op I've read all your updates and still don't have a clear grasp of your belief system. Is it the religious aspect you disagree with? The perceived performative aspect? The way Western cultures do funerals? What about funerals in other cultures, do any of those align with your belief?

I gather from your updates that you feel that time and care is given to the living when they are alive, and you can rest easy and know that you honoured them in life by doing so. That's totally right and we all should try to be there for loves one's who are respectful and love us too, while they live. You also have lots of others in the family who could step up on this part of the care of the deceased and your MIL, yes you say they didn't see FIL enough when he was ill but if they didn't step up, but if they didn't step up your MIL would have been on her own organising that. It is a bit of pick and choose and tit for tat.

It's such a broad range and funerals are often as individual as the person was who died. Often people have wishes for their funeral and the mourners find it more cathartic to attend a funeral, talk of the person, be together with family at eating and drinking. There's often a lot of laughs at the reception of a funeral, you feel a bit guilty but it's natural, the family is together. Like with the birth of a child when everyone draws in, the same goes for a funeral or end of life service, or ashes scattering gathering etc.

You don't have to go but you most likely do have to explain yourself better with your family why, and you haven't explained on this thread that well unless you're being more private due to not wanting to be recognised, which is fair.

The problem is, funerals are a cultural norm. You are, by most cultural norms, being disrespectful. Funerals look different in different cultures - dismembering a body as part of a Tibetan sky burial would be seen by many other cultures as horrifying, or burial versus burning versus many other mechanisms for disposing of the dead person. However what is consistent amongst the majority of (maybe even all?) cultures is a gathering of friends and family to mark the passing of the deceased. Your decision not to go is disrespectful by most cultural norms, that is just a fact. But whether that matters to you or others is a different question. I personally wouldn't care at all if members of my family told me they wouldn't go to my funeral. But I would find it disrespectful if eg my partner refused to go with me to my mum's funeral, befause the reason to go, much as you protest, is not about the deceased, it is about the living gathering to say goodbye.

Also to call something a belief system suggests some kind of coherence to the beliefs. What is your rationale for not going to a funeral because it's about the dead person? Surely it wouldn't harm you to go? Not sure how that aligns with veganism? Instead of banging on about a belief system why not just tell family asking if you're in a cult that you just have different opinions and values to them, and to mind their own business?

I have read some of your posts, @Bluehummingbird, and while I understand you have beliefs that really matter to you, I think you are wrong here.

I’m sure it is not your intention, but by your actions, you are saying to your nearest and dearest, “Our beliefs about funerals/churches matter more than your feelings. We know you would value our support at this difficult time, but we won’t compromise our beliefs to help and support you”.