Should the British Museum be broken up?

[Howtoaccept]

Is it time to return all treasures and other objects to the countries that they came from. Some were looted and some were bought or genuinely donated but do they belong in London? The ones that are on loan return to the families that have donated and they can be in private collections or go back to the country of origin.

Ive heard the argument that it means visitors can see things from all over the world in one place. I presume that could be achieved by some of them becoming part of travelling exhibitions. Some are very fragile so will need to be moved carefully, but ultimately they are not from the UK.

The National Gallery is not full of looted artefacts, afaik.

YABU.

No. They were procured at great cost. They could be sold back, but we shouldn't be quilted intonit for politically correct reasons. We don't live in a perfect world, and half of this stuff wasn't valued and wouldn't have been preserved if it wasn't in a museum.

I think there’s an argument for some specific items being returned. But in general, no.

There is immense value in having museums of global history and culture. The nation is not the only important level of identity, and is certainly not the best way to understand much of human life.

There’s a fantastic art gallery in Madrid that shows the progression of art chronologically from the very earliest art to the present day, pointing out the shifting influences and themes.

That story would make no sense if each item had to be sent back to wherever the artist came from, or to remove one country’s pieces.

I can’t see an important difference between art and most other types of artifact, assuming acquired legitimately. For those saying galleries are different — why?

Also, the pollution from traffic in Athens over decades has damaged the remaining Parthenon and other treasures on the Acropolis. The Parthenon was used to store gun powder, once.

It's a tricky one, the Elgin Marbles were legally bought - but from the Ottomans, not the Greeks. I had a Greek lecturer at uni who wouldn't work in Greece because he thought they should stay at the BM because they were bought and Elgin bankrupted himself shipping them over, obviously a very unpopular opinion in Greece!

I was in the museum this week and bought this argument up with my friend.

To be honest, im not sure why it’s called the British Museum when so much of the stuff isn’t British. Calling it something like “The Museum of culture” would be better if you want to keep items from other cultures.

While it was great for my daughter to see things like Mummies and the Rosetta Stone, it did feel a bit weird. The only real connection to Britain they have is we pinched them or “bought” them. These items are alien and out of place. They really should be appreciated in the culture they were made and intended for.

I can see the argument for some items like Roman items, as the Romans did invade Britain, but we do have items that are made in Britain by the Romans.

While it was great for my daughter to see things like Mummies and the Rosetta Stone, it did feel a bit weird. The only real connection to Britain they have is we pinched them or “bought” them. These items are alien and out of place. They really should be appreciated in the culture they were made and intended for.

Well that isn't one of the options available with mummies and the Rosetta Stone!

Of course this would have to apply to all museums, not just the BM. It would be a massive logistical undertaking for every museum in the world to return items to their place of origin. Most would cease to exist as we know them.

It is to do with poverty. You say yourself that wealthy people have to apply for visas. Their wealth will help them get one. I'm not getting arsey, I'm just disagreeing with you.

my thinking
The new Egyptian museum and the fact that Egyptians want artefacts returned. If that goes and things like the Elgin marbles I can imagine many countries requesting their things back, who don’t currently because they just don’t think it possible it will happen. You then have a museum with less prestige, less draw. It’s also massive and expensive.

We can’t undo the damage of colonialism. Whatever would have happened to artefacts they still did not belong to the British. A lot of the large families that bought and donated were enriched by slavery.

A lot of tourists do get to see things but would other nations be able to get there own tourism displaying the objects and saying “this was part of the complex just out of the city” rather then “this object is from a complex outside of the city of X 2 thousand miles away.
It wouldn’t be perfect as some places would not have as much money to preserve things but maybe revenue from tourism will help generally.

@Howtoaccept That wouldn't necessarily mean the museum had had to close

And if countries can make a case getting the stuff back, I'm sure they will, if they want it

In many cases, the responsibility of it will be gladly handed over to the British Museum. You say you can't undo the damage of empire. I'm not particularly keen to rewrite it and I have ancestors from an Empire based country. They couldn't say this out loud now, but they could certainly see the good and the bad of Empire. it's been said to me that they very much felt like they were coming home to the mother country when they came here.

Don't come at me - it's their opinion.

Absolutely not. I've been to a vast number of major museums all around the world. Not one solely contained items from the country in which it stood. Museums everywhere have items from other countries and cultures. There are British items in foreign museums abroad. Why do people think only the British have items from elsewhere? It's ludicrous.

I don't think.the French did a very.good job of looking after the treasures I'm Louvre do.you

After the recent robbery and the destruction.of Notre Dame.

Can't we some of these vast art treasures and paintings in.Virtual
Reality or around holograms for a small.fee via out mobiles?

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2023/dec/12/british-museum-told-to-keep-better-records-after-theft-of-1500-items

Not sure the British Museum has a better record. At least the Louvre robbery was dealt with very quickly.

Do tell us how they were acquired, object by object.

Not sure who that's aimed at but it's a ridiculous question, as i am sure you knew when posting it.

No

You are dead right. They would have been long gone in their original countries. Look what Isis did in Iraq.

The pyramids , sphinx etc were built by slaves. So your premise doesn't hold water. The Parthenon was also built with the use of slave labour.

Not all pyramids were built with slave labour.

(Are we allowed facts here ?)

No it shouldn't.
It's a free museum open to all that holds beautiful and significant historical items for the nation.

‘Return them’ to who?

The peoples who made the stuff in museums are largely long dead. Their entire societies are long dead. The people who live now in the areas in which artefacts were collected, often just picked up off the floor, have often no relationship whatsoever to the people who inhabited the areas in antiquity, and often knew nothing and cared less about the remains. Why should the society - ours - that actually cared to fund the finding and retrieval of the artefacts, and painfully decipher and piece together stories, not keep them?

You are aware I presume, op, that the entire histories of ancient Egypt and Sumer, to pick names at random, were entirely forgotten for centuries, even millennia, and only rediscovered thanks to the studies of thousands of dedicated western scholars? It was our people and culture that returned meaning and context to remains, not the people currently inhabiting those lands.

The idea of trying to return items from even more distant epochs is entirely absurd. Entire Peoples have been wiped out by repeated invasions, usually from the east heading west.

You are aware I presume, op, that the entire histories of ancient Egypt and Sumer, to pick names at random, were entirely forgotten for centuries, even millennia, and only rediscovered thanks to the studies of thousands of dedicated western scholars?

A lot of Egyptian artefacts only survive because the Romans nicked them.

Pedantic. Just pick the bits that suit . Goodnight

Ah, so insistence on facts is mere pedantry now ?

That was a total waste of schooling and Uni then. Where do I get a refund ?