Should the British Museum be broken up?

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Is it time to return all treasures and other objects to the countries that they came from. Some were looted and some were bought or genuinely donated but do they belong in London? The ones that are on loan return to the families that have donated and they can be in private collections or go back to the country of origin.

Ive heard the argument that it means visitors can see things from all over the world in one place. I presume that could be achieved by some of them becoming part of travelling exhibitions. Some are very fragile so will need to be moved carefully, but ultimately they are not from the UK.

Then you will be aware that the The Jewels of the Nizams of Hyderabad are rarely displayed and most Indians have never had an opportunity to see them. Instead, they live in a vault in Mumbai.

There are items that should be returned but if you have actually been to the British museum you will know that other artefacts were bought, are British to start with are from countries where if we didn’t have them would have been looted, sold on the black market or simply destroyed (think about what the taliban have done). The Elgin Marbles are an interesting case too because if they hadn’t been in London they could have easily been destroyed in earthquakes.

I support repatriation where the country can look after them and is stable (to best of our knowledge) but not to go into some despot’s private collection or worse sold by some despot to build a gold plated swimming pool!

I couldn't give a shiny shit that we stole items and now show them in a museum. I want them to be fairly local, easy to get to for me to view at my leisure. I want to be able to oggle at mummies and stare at dubiously obtained jewels.

You do know that people who are dead have no idea what's going on. I kind of hope someone digs me up centuries after I'm dead and put me on display. Why not. I won't care.

Honestly get over yourself.

True. They have been displayed in New Delhi a couple of times though.

Which isn't good enough but better than being displayed as part of the British crown in the Tower at £25 a ticket.
I don't expect the Kohinoor to ever be returned though given its history. But the golden throne of Ranjit Singh, acquired by force. That can be lent out to where it came from.

The Elgin marbles were bought, but they would have survived if they had stayed. Perhaps not as well as they have after 200 years avoiding earthquakes, gunpowder and acid rain, but we can see that the condition of the sculptures on the Parthenon museum is not terrible. For me the bigger issue is that they would go from one museum to another. I’d like to see a collaboration between both museums and conservation experts to use them to do what happens with cathedrals: carve new replicas and place them in their original position on the frieze of the temple. I think the Acropolis would benefit from sensitive partial restoration where we know precisely what was there before because those artefacts survive in museums.

Apparently the locals in Libya got together to fend off daesh from destroying Leptis Magna.
The Bamiyam Buddha's & Palmyra didn't survive the iconoclasts so well.
This thread premis also strikes me as iconoclastic. As far as I know, sensible people are trying to create online access to various collections, including those behind the scenes. So, those who want to learn and marvel can. Those who find it all offensive and colonial can scroll by.

I’m very in favour of lending and museums are good at that now.

That said, the moving of the Bateaux Tapestry makes me nervous. It’s incredibly delicate. I understand the desire to bring a piece of Anglo Saxon embroider back to its homeland for a temporary exhibition, but I’m really not convinced it’s worth the risk.

Sorry that should read Bayeaux and embroidery

No of course not.

"Passport privilege" is just coming from a country which commands international respect. Yes this is a great thing if you have it and a shame if you don't, but it's not in our interests to just respect all countries equally regardless of diplomatic links, corruption, respect for the rule of law etc etc.

Try applying the same argument to employing doctors. There are many countries that are recognised to have medical schools that provide high quality training. As a result, qualifications from those countries might be recognised internationally. Other countries have poor quality medical training and if you have graduated from a medical school in one of those countries, you can't just go anywhere and get work. This is for a very good reason - most countries want to be sure that someone is a 'qualified doctor' is actually skilled and knowledgeable to the required standard. It's not in our interests to employ doctors whose qualifications may not be very good, because we want to be 'fair'. This actually isn't fair to the patients they may end up treating!

The same applies to visas. We give visas to people from countries we respect and have agreements with, if it is in our interests to do so. We don't want to let people into our country if we can't be sure it is a wise move. We might be more likely to give a visa to someone from Australia than someone from Mali, because we know Australia has a robust identity-checking system, respects the rule of law, would co-operate with us if the person was accused of a crime etc.

Not everything was stolen. Quite a lot was sold by whoever was in charge. It's not our fault they may have been despotic autocrats with no mandate of the people. For a long time in our own history we were the same.

Also it's incredibly racist to say white people can't be African. Imagine if you were at a conference about the Vikings and you complained that there were too many black people there...

If you're say that they were white and not even claiming to be African, then they're probably grifters and it suggests the whole enterprise is a waste of everyone's time and money.

There is a replica.
https://www.readingmuseum.org.uk/collections/britains-bayeux-tapestry

I also saw a mechanical version of part of it at MAD in Stratford-on-Avon. That place is small but brilliant.

Eh? They are white British academics. Not claming to be from Africa. As for being a waste of time and money, possibly. But organisers have no way of knowing visas will be denied at the last moment.

This is an interesting point. I just read about Mali recently and what’s happening there, it would go back to some violent people not the citizens.

Also I've never understood the point of private collections.

@AgnesX How would you decide which works of art, artefacts etc could not be in a private collection?
One worth £10 million or more? One worth a few thousands by a good but unfashionable artist?
A Chippendale wardrobe which the owner uses in his house?
A painting of an ancestor by say Gainsborough or Reynolds which is still in the family’s possession?

If items were looted, they should be returned. If they were purchased, they can be kept.

You don't think that Britain has it's own culture and traditions. Not this nonsense again. 🙄

@curious79 The BM already has travelling exhibitions. It’s fairly standard for great museums to do this. However it won’t be to countries with poor museums and lack of security.

Many great museums around the the world have artefacts from around the world. At the time they were collected snd given, the rich put together collections. The Greeks had hardly cared for the Parthenon! The marbles were reached whether they like it or not. So these world wide museums will hang on to what they have because there’s just too much to hand back and why just pick off the BM? What about everyone else?

OK I was wrong, Britain does have one tradition.

Football hooliganism.

That and extremely bland food.

So you are right, my apologies.

Why are you being like this about Britain?
I'm going to assume you're joking, but it's really unacceptable to castigate an entire nation's culture in this way, and wouldn't be acceptable if you said it about another country.

Sorry I just hate it here. I want to leave so badly. I’ll wind my neck in now. 😞

You are assuming they would want to come. You are also assuming 'passport privilege' (whatever the heck that is) and a lack of funds only applies to non-white people.

Passport privilege: Tourist visas cost hundreds of pounds, have to be booked months in advance with an appointment and documents ranging from a letterbof employment, property deeds to 6 months worth of bank statements have to be provided by people from certain countries. Are you really unaware of this? Even with all this you can be rejected.

There must be a way for you do to this. Do you have skills another country might give you a visa for? Are you young for those types of visas?