Labour isn't working - Thread 16

[TheNuthatch]

A chat thread for those who don't like this Labour government. 💙

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

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https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5433563-labour-isnt-working-thread-15?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

I agree with everything you say but what can the tax payer do except leave? Not easy when you have DC in schools, parents, jobs etc. here.
if I knew of a way to protest I’d be doing it but until the next election, when all the indications are Starmer will be handed his arse on a plate (and that’s too far away for my liking), I feel completely powerless.

This makes sense as depressing as it is. It sounds like we’re in a vice to be turned each year until they’re out.

There’s no mechanism to stop that? Apart from some random thing that is an outlier.

So we’re looking at higher taxes, people opting out, surely we can’t afford what will be demanded and that might cause an issue of some kind.

I feel the same.
Our changes in behaviour will have an impact though, and I'm sure you're already doing that.

I feel less stressed about this budget. Its been puzzling me why I feel kind of numb to it. I think it's because the last one caused my family so much upset, so I've gone into ostrich mode. We didn't see the NI rise coming and it knocked us for six. I don't think I have the bandwidth for any more financial stress.

They said they wouldn’t raise taxes. They said they’d be focused on growth.

Any educated person knows that means reigning in non investment spending.

Then, they immediately gave their client voters a pay rise and raised taxes.

I share your feelings of helplessness - the only real options available are emigrate or mitigate. By mitigate I mean tax planning including estate planning, early retirement, cutting hours/income, deferring capital gains etc. I realise that these are not suitable for everyone.

I firmly believe that the silent middle, like many of us, should form a unified voice - we are far too docile.

On the contrary. 🤯🤯

I think the ratcheting works both ways - the political risk for what Reeves is about to try on 26th November, is significant. Labour’s ratings are on their arse for good reason - and it’s not all about immigration (save for the funding element).

To rely on that hackneyed expression ‘batten down the hatches’, that is all that most can do. We are compelled to play the long game, up to the end of this parliament, premised on a worst case scenario.

Labour are experts at unforced errors, as we know - hopefully they will make some more howlers that will dramatically shorten this parliament.

This. Financially plan as best as you can. The next government WILL have to make the tough decisions Labour can’t. Cutting all welfare including pensions and triple locks. Work will have to pay. I think we need to go to a contributory based welfare system like nearly every other country. We are an outlier here.

If I were reliant on the state right now, I’d be making plans to change that pronto. I’m a state worker and will probably quit teaching. Education is a mess, there is no money coming this way. The government are paying so much in debt and the that is just increasing. There is no money to invest in the public sector. We can’t afford it. That means frontline services are going to be even worse to work in. No thanks.

@upseedaisee interesting to me that you cashed in your pensions - presume that means you took as much out as you were allowed to?

I didn't realise the UC increase was gonna be that much either.

I really think the other problem we've got in the wings is that nobody wants to do anything - totally predictable post lockdowns but I must admit I didn't think it would carry on this long. This intern makes me think it's got to be related to other things but I am not sure what they are.

I mention it a lot, but I do feel like we're living inside the song "People" by the 1975 - "I just want to get girls, food, gear... I don't like going outside so bring me everything here"

Oh, and also their song "the man who fell in love with a robot". Probably a lot of of their songs! 🤷🏻‍♀️

and my favourite line from another song applies more and more every day "like context in a modern debate, I just took it out"

One of the people I was out with last night was doing her thing of getting Reform and Trump into anything possible, mentioning it apropos nothing. She's also very loud.

Then again, I'm very quiet these days. I think TDS has its own version in the UK with how people talk about Reform.

@Legolava I don't know if these jobs still exist, but under the Blair government, I met a lady who was employed by the state as a sort of education consultant. But her job was to go around state schools persuading them to do a bunch of extra stuff. It wasn't compulsory for them to take her recommendations. She was quite well paid.

It seemed a strange job to me. Do they still exist? I would've thought it would just be a question of government saying what core curriculum they would like and schools making decisions about extras.

I may be wrong, but I just feel as if private schools have more of a fixed curriculum and seem to be doing well with it. It's going back a way now, but I heard one of the reasons why schools in other countries often do better is because, particularly in old empire territory, state schools are modelled on English private schools

I have no idea if any of this is true.

Yes I agree with your last line. I don’t give Trump or Reform much headspace but can see why they have risen in popularity.

Wrt the US I’m more likely to boggle at the valuation of Nvidia and ponder all the top performing companies that are vast and must take in huge profits / taxes.

interesting to me that you cashed in your pensions - presume that means you took as much out as you were allowed to?

None of my pension pots were particularly large so I was advised to do a trivial communtation lump sum. and took the maximum tax free last year, then took the hit and cashed in the rest earlir this year.

@upseedaisee finally I have met someone who is on the same page with pensions as I am! 😊

@EasternStandard what I particularly dislike is the automatic assumption that I will agree with people because of the colour of my skin. (Along with the automatic assumption that pretty much everyone in Reform is racist).

"but I just feel as if private schools have more of a fixed curriculum and seem to be doing well with it" I would disagree with this to some extent. Independent schools are free from the rigidity of National Curriculum etc so can be more flexible and innovative. They also generally get pupils for longer hours per day than state so can fit more in.

At DDs independent they have have PE/Games 5 days out of 6. Mostly outdoors. That gives a huge advantage with managing behaviour.
They have a myriad of music, drama, art, pottery, DT classes etc.
Then on top of that clubs each afternoon 4-5.

They are free from state oversight so are free to teach how they want ie to fit their individual ethos. That's so attractive as an alternative to current state system.

In addition SEND DC get 1-2-1 support. DD has at least half a dozen pupils in her year who get that 1-2-1 during each lesson.

Now in an ideal world obviously every child should have access to all of this BUT Labour, instead of engaging with independent sector and looking at what they do well + trying to emulate some of it in state schools, just created a divisive narrative and enacted legislation which is causing many to close! It's batshit.

There’s a thing in the Times: “Wealthy Britons fleeing the country for low-tax havens face being hit by a 20% charge on their business assets when they leave the UK under plans being drawn up ahead of the budget.”

The waste is INSANE. Yes, they do have these and many other bloated roles that are really unnecessary. The issues are compounded by academy trusts who cream off the top line of schools. Layers and layers of consultants and management. Money for all of these academy trusts to have multiple layers of directors, shiny offices and the like. There are about 1.5k MATs in the UK. Each with their own leadership and staffing. Insane. Some MATs are top-slicing huge percentages.

The wastage and excess spending and the bloat in the quasi public sector needs sorting. All these private MATs top-slicing huge amounts whilst the money is coming from the state for the state.

@twistyizzy sorry, I should've realised I phrased that very badly

I meant the exam curriculum type stuff. So I thought private schools were have a successful model and they like to stick with it. At least that's the impression I'm under.

I wasn't thinking of extracurricular stuff at all. To be honest, I was very puzzled what this lady was actually trying to sell.

@CruCru yes, I wondered when that would come in. There's no way they're just going to let people leave the country and not penalise them.

There's been a few posts saying that people feel there is no influence from the left. I feel as if I'm surrounded by the flipping left so I'm quite confused! To me that seems like the action of a very left-wing government.

@Legolava so was the creation of academies just an extension of the gravy train? There was a lot of heated debate about it that I didn't really look into.

Yes. Absolutely nuts. If you think about it, before, it was one LA. So your local council managing all the schools. Was it perfect? No. It was better than what we have now.

Now you have 1.5k ish private companies all taking state school money. That’s all of those acadamy trusts have a director of making toast, a director of toilet breaks, a director of hurty feelings and so on. CEOs and directors on 6 figure salaries. Your child needs extra support? No money. Your class needs a TA? No money. Need glue sticks? No money. It’s obscene. Educational consultancy is big money and it is money for old rope.

The whole sector needs ripping apart and starting again. Getting rid of the profit from state education and the layers of gravy train track would be good.

@Legolava oh I bet she's got one of those jobs now! She was a full on socialist living in a house in Hackney that she inherited from her parents. Not that I object to that. It was just she couldn't see her own privilege but she was incredibly keen to point out what she perceived as being everyone else's.

FT

Chancellor Rachel Reeves is planning a Budget tax raid on the owners of expensive homes, with new, higher bands of council tax seen as the best way to raise several billion pounds for the cash-strapped exchequer. People briefed on Reeves’ thinking say that more radical options, such as creating a new levy on the value of homes or imposing capital gains tax on the sale of expensive properties, are much less likely.

Although no decisions have been taken, Reeves has said that higher taxes on the wealthy will be “part of the story” in her Budget on November 26. People close to her preparations say that “administrative simplicity” is key. One person close to Reeves’ thinking said: “The idea of increased taxation on high-end homes is well established. The discussion is about how you do it.” Another said: “It is vital for the political balance of the Budget, to show everyone is paying their fair share.”

Thank you @DancingFerret and @upseedaisee , yes I checked previously and never been entitled. I have an over active thyroid. Well mine is called Graves Disease. It could have been any other auto immune disorder but this one doesn't entitle me to free prescriptions.

"It is vital for the political balance of the Budget, to show everyone is paying their fair share.” except they aren't are they? It's the same people paying more whilst some put nothing it and just take.
So if we are talking about "fairness" then we have to start taxing EVERYONE more, making cuts and means testing more things (and I'm talking education and healthcare here which I know is controversial).
Then we end MPs subsidised lunches and expenses (a drop in the ocean but symbolically important if we are talking about fairness + broadest shoulders) and we overall the whole bloody system as @Legolava says.

Reeves is certifiable @twistyizzy isn’t she?

If she goes through with half of what has been floated during the past few days, then a significant number of people will become insolvent - they will simply not be able to meet their tax liabilities as they fall due.

I have been reading a lot this morning, and what worries me is that a large section of the media believe that increasing taxation on the middle is not just the only way to balance the budget, but is also the right thing to do in order to address ‘wealth inequalities’. There is little talk of cuts to welfare. Utter insanity.

I cannot believe that the UK has reached this point - perhaps I was naive and considered that logic and pragmatism would prevail, but it appears not.

I have reached the conclusion that this is nothing short of open warfare on the ‘middle’, namely those who have worked diligently, paid their dues, and contributed to society.

Labour cannot be permitted to get away with this.

I’m so intrigued as to how the mansion tax / whatever she’s going to call it will work.
Who gets to decide what a house is worth?
A house is worth what someone is prepared to pay for it, and given the housing market is seriously unpredictable at the moment, good luck with placing a reliable value on houses at the top end, where most of the unpredictability exists!

Also, Rachel Reeves house….did anyone zoom in and see the weird sheets over windows upstairs…I think accountant / financial people are generally quite precise / bean countery and just didn’t get that vibe from that house. It was much more haphazard than I’d expect from a personality type whose passion is numbers