Is it possible to have a sensible discussion about disability benefits?

[Pjnow]

According to Google 10% of working age people are in receipt of PIP and 6% of 0-15yos receive DLA.

I'm a proper lefty who believes absolutely in the welfare state, a safety net and that we should care properly for those with disabilities. A society should be judged on how it cares for its most vulnerable.

However 10% in receipt of disability benefits can't be sustainable. I know many people receiving PIP also work, it's not about that.

I'm just wondering what (if anything) can be done to make sure those who need support get it, without paying it to 10% of the population. I know not all disabilities are visble etc, but 10%?!

Joseph Rowntree Foundation studied this...much was accounted for by the rise in pension age, people impacted by long covid. The proportion of the population surviving disabling injuries...either at birth or other occasions. There was no massive rise...its a stupid distraction from HUGE sums being extracted from our economy by corporations that dont pay taxes to trade here. Its classic divide and rule ...a genuine 'lefty'would know that 🤢

I was going to say this.

Children in receipt of DLA are quite likely to be getting some sort of higher needs funding, or top up, paid to their school.

@GetThatToadOutOfMyHole
Im very sorry to hear how you feel and how your life is.
I’m hoping that this suggestion is taken in the spirit it’s intended- have you tried EMDR?
Ive been in trouble mentally because of a sexual assault (by a doctor to add to the joy) and found it was the only thing that helped.
It’s expensive… but I would give it to you if I could.
Your physically disabled friend.. a bit of a red herring. her circumstances are unique to her (thankfully) but as best you can try not to compare.
My daughter is about as physically disabled as one can be (can’t walk, talk, eat etc) and she gets the same amount of money from DLA as your friend’s children will. Or a child with any other neurodivergent condition that affects them differently to how my daughter is affected.
Thats the way the system works.
Id love to feel grateful for her DLA but I don’t. I want a child who could do any one of the major things she can’t do - walk, talk or eat.
Id love to be in full time employment again (only can’t be because of her disabilities) and I’d love to talk to her about school or her problems. I never will do either.
When people vent or rant about unsustainable welfare benefits I’d like to think they can comprehend it’s a situation- for the vast majority- of “there but for the grace of god go I” (I don’t believe in god just the saying) but I don’t think they do.
They’d just rather not be taxed more- which in itself is understandable.
And then of course some people are resentful cunts!

And help and support on a school trip god forbid a disabled teenager wants to go on a school trip with their friends and peers eh,

I also would like some transparency into the costs of appeals.

My DD had to go to appeal. She had evidence from her specialist, her OT, the pain clinic, and the charity for her condition (the statement was from a volunteer from that charity who befriended DD - that volunteer was a GP).

We waited over an hour after the appointment time. There was at least 10 rooms doing appeals, at least two independent people hired for each appeal, and so busy it took 8 months to come through. DD didn't even get into the room - the clerk came out and told her that looking at the bundle they had awarded her HRC and HRM, with the agreement of the DWP rep who was there, and apologised they hadn't been able to call her before she travelled.

The cost of all those panels, when claimants have a high success rate at appeal, must be extortionate.

Also just to add, in the “old days”, autistic children were sent to asylums and chained to radiators. Their parents might not have claimed disability benefits for them, but they sure cost the state a lot of money.

The taxpayer should be looking at this, if they want something to rightfully get het up about. The appeals process has been spoken about many times, on threads like this. The assessment, and appeals process, is costing a colossal amount, unnecessarily. What is the Government planning on doing about that, I wonder.

I absolutely believe the state should support those who genuinely are unable to work and i am glad to live in a society that does so but i think it is now impossible to sort the 'fake'claimants from the genuine as there are so many people in receipt.
There will always be idiots who expose themselves by being seen clubbing in Ibiza but there are also the clever ones who fake their symptoms ,work the system quietly ,keep off social media then reap the rewards.
Due to these dishonest skivers sadly many disability benefit claimants are treated disrespectfully.
My close relative has worked in this department for decades and believes that probably only 1/3rd of the claimants they deal with are genuine, this person is probably the least judgemental person i know .

I can’t say too much about my MH as people report my posts 🙄 but I do claim PIP and we get a little UC. I would love to work. It would be so much better than the shitshow I’m living.
But when you have people with chronic and complex MH issues (my previous psychs have labelled me in that way)that don’t even have a psychiatrist, then things are bad. I’ve not seen a psychiatrist for months. My GP won’t see me as they say the MH team need to sort it. My care coordinator cannot arrange a meeting to discuss me as she needs a psychiatrists input and I don’t have one. Previous psychs said I needed therapy for personality disorder but therapists say I’m too unstable.
The whole service is so disjointed. And meanwhile people get sicker and sicker. And claim benefits.

So OP - is the discussion “sensible” enough?

Really? How odd, I always thought that a person was required to have actual medical evidence, to back up whatever they had written on the forms. It just goes to show, that you cannot believe everything that you hear!🙄

I also think 10% is low. “Disability” is a very broad term.

I wonder if the answer is about how we view work.

I’ve had severe anxiety and depression for 30+ years. I also have chronic fatigue. I had a huge breakdown in 2012 and had to take a year off work. Since then I’ve been working from home - work is manageable for
me now because I don’t have to commute or mask my anxiety and depression around people face to face. I just get on with my job - I work really hard and I’m really productive. I don’t even need to take sick days.

I believe more people (not all, but more) would be able to work if employers offered
flexible hours, working from home, didn’t demand arbitrary “60% in the office” attendance. Employers should let people actually work to their abilities rather than expecting everyone to meet the same demands.

2 year waiting list for my daughter to get an autism and adhd diagnosis. 2 years to be told yes she has adhd and needs medication, but it’s going to be another 2 years until she reaches the top of the list for a prescribing doctor. The only thing i could do was fund it privately with the help if child dla. It helps towards therapy, a private OT and the medication she needs. Nhs is not fit for purpose, without dla i couldn’t afford the medicine she desperately requires

There are lots of other signs and symptoms of debilitating anxiety,

full declaration I get pip following an accident where my foot was badly smashed up and I use a wheelchair.

my DIL is anxious. She regularly has panic attacks. These are documented by her GP. She has been prescribed propanolol for them (more documentation). She has had them in public places and missed trains etc. she’s got the notes that the train staff have written for the driver saying by she missed the original train because having a panic attack so please let her on the next one.

she’s also had CBT for the panic attacks (again, records of payments and appointments and letters from therapist to GP).

it’s actually fairly easy to document.

I haven’t read the whole thread but as a parent of an adult with severe LD’s who will be on PIP forever (or some kind of benefits) I hate how judgemental people can be towards her and me for being her full time carer.

I am sure others have mentioned that a lot of people claiming PIP are people waiting for treatment and surgery on the NHS? Waiting times are long and due to this people are ending up with long term disabilities that could have been prevented if they got treatment sooner. I don’t believe there are many claiming PIP that shouldn’t be, I do believe that there are people that should be claiming it that don’t, mainly due to the stigma and the long process of applying.

Yes this is the case,

it was expected that the rise in pension age would lead to an increase in disability benefits.

the government modelled it before raising the pension age and this is the actual data here:

https://obr.uk/box/the-effects-of-ageing-and-a-rising-state-pension-age-on-incapacity-benefits-caseloads/

I have a friend who needs both knees replacing. He is on the lowest rate of the mobility element of PIP due to that.
Once they get fixed then he can come off that part of PIP but he has been waiting years already.

Not a single pupil i am talking about has an EHCP.
They are bright pupils, who play in sports teams and often go on overseas trips. As I said, most of them have pretty wealthy parents, who hold good jobs.

I think there's a growing movement online encouraging people to apply for PIP for things like ADHD and what I would call functioning autism (I have this) and I don't feel this is healthy.

Saw a woman online earlier saying she needed PIP as she got anxious doing cooking, and hated having a shower. I mean, seriously? We should look at funding counselling and therapy for these type of people, a short term thing where they can get back on their feet so to speak. it shouldn't be a way of life and £500 a month payment.

I wouldn't dream of applying for PIP and yet I get told reguarly I should ( I have two quite major health conditions which affected my ability to work FT - I've simply gone self employed in order to manage that) There are so many pages now where you are told exactly what you need to write and say to get it.

Yet for me, the people who absolutely should get PIP are going through hell to get it when it should be a given (thinking of a lady I know who only has one leg and one arm and she was turned down - I mean, it's a joke, she should be on double and the lady who needs to give her head a wobble shouldn't be getting it!)

So your DIL clearly needs medical support this is clear. But why PIP? Why not counselling and therapy to get her thinking clearly again? I honestly do not think PIP is for someone like your DIL as you describe. (appreciate plenty will disagree with me, it's just my view)

The numbers for people on Pip cannot be Maintained , the scope of having a disability has become too wide , I have worked in disability services and people now see themselves as disabled with the most smallest impairment or with any ND problems.. I actually agreed with the 4 point rule that was going to be bought it .. the bar needs to be set higher unfortunately .. being prompted to do something should not be classed as you having any disability . ( which is what under 4 points indicates within pip .

I know a few adults with ADHD who claim PIP and not one is claiming for ADHD. They are claiming for other issues they have. One has ADHD but she actually claims PIP for bipolar. When you apply for PIP you have to list all the health conditions you have even if you are not applying for PIP for them.
I am diagnosed with depression but I dont claim PIP for it. But I had to mention it and I would be in the statistics for it too.

To clarify, I was giving the example of how anxiety can be documented.

my DIL also has autism and a brain tumor hence the pip.

she is receiving therapy and counselling as well as radio therapy and expected brain surgery next year.

The current wait time where I am for just an appointment to look into childhood neurodiversity is 5 years! It's unacceptable.

Therapy on the NHS is very limited both in what it addresses and the amount you get. Many people use their PIP payments to pay for private therapy.