Is it possible to have a sensible discussion about disability benefits?

[Pjnow]

According to Google 10% of working age people are in receipt of PIP and 6% of 0-15yos receive DLA.

I'm a proper lefty who believes absolutely in the welfare state, a safety net and that we should care properly for those with disabilities. A society should be judged on how it cares for its most vulnerable.

However 10% in receipt of disability benefits can't be sustainable. I know many people receiving PIP also work, it's not about that.

I'm just wondering what (if anything) can be done to make sure those who need support get it, without paying it to 10% of the population. I know not all disabilities are visble etc, but 10%?!

I wasn’t responsible for being born disabled, the government were responsible for not making sure pregnant women had proper nutrition.

If I’m expected to pay for a £3k wheelchair, medical appliances for my double incontinence and extra power for heating and washing, adapted vehicle so I can get to work (to name just a few of my costs), how do I do that?

My barely above minimum wage salary that I’m paid for a highly skilled job I can only do part time doesn’t even cover my mortgage and my food, let alone my bills.

Does “being responsible” suddenly make money magically appear from mid air?

I've never said it guarantees benefits, what concerns me is the volume of people that want every condition to warrant benefits and people will exaggerate some to try and get benefits. The system isn't working and the government are telling you that themselves. Don't shoot me for seeing things I question and what the government is telling me I should be questioning!

Some people will exaggerate but that doesn't guarantee benefits either theu need proper evidence from professionals who are qualified to assess then not just a GP,s letter
As I have said on various similar threads I'm on a few Facebook groups, for parents/ carers of children who get DLA
Every day I see people putting in claims for very tenuous reasons but they rarely get anywhere with them.

Good morning!

Just for clarity...

No not a millionaire- just sensible and thought a few things through, it'd benice if i was. For the poster who suggested that.

No, i don't believe in institutions for the disabled but do think communal housing for those who need social housing and don't work is a good idea.

OP, to answer your question no i don't think you can have a reasonable discussion about benefits. What this thread has shown is that any suggestion of removing disability benefits or tightening criteria is met with "but i have x,y,z and that isn't fair".

There are video's on tiktok etc talking people through claims, there are facebook groups dedicated to how to claim and there are people who fill forms in for a living.

The amount of people claiming is rising. We need a system where people work who can and the system we have at the moment discourages that.

My personal feelings are that most of the disability benefits should be scrapped. I think a lot of benefits should be scrapped.

Calm the fuck down! You're sick of people like me? People with health conditions that just carry on! Jesus! I didn't say you get loads of money but the system is failing! If all of us that work with conditions suddenly jumped on the bandwagon to claim some money and potentially work less, who pays these benefits then? You are sick of the people you rely on!

I seriously hope so but the fact remains that the government are telling us that too much of the population is claiming and going up all the time so something isn't working is it!

Oh dear, time to go and water the plants, me thinks.🪴

I can't be bothered to argue with everyone that's shouting at me! They refuse to see the other side of the argument or acknowledge the valid examples I've given and it's like this everytime theres a discussion about disability benefits! Those that claim hate any other view but their own & they won't listen to the fact that if more and more people continue to claim as per government warnings, there won't be enough benefits to go around! Why does a man that works full time, is mobile and uses his disability payment to buy a season ticket to go watch the football need a disability payment? The questions nobody likes to answer eh!

If you want to reduce benefits which are supposed to help fill the gap between being able and disabled, then you need to fix that gap first, so the benefits aren't needed. But that will cost a heck of a lot more than the pittance paid by the benefits system.

So for example, fix the public transport system so it meets the needs of disabled people and you don't need to pay benefits to help with the cost of taxis. Fix the health service and you won't have to pay benefits to people who got the treatment they needed. Fix the education system so it meets the needs of disabled children etc.

But it is so much more nuanced than that. Fixing the health service will, of course, help some people to not end up so disabled in the first place. Some people for instance, will not be able to use public transport, even if it was to be made more accessible, for example.

I’ll answer- that falls into recreation and social activities, which is key to some people’s MH. It also falls into engaging with the community.

One of the things we put on the looooong forms we have to fill in, is about how effectively our son can engage with activities and his opportunity to independently access them.

Our LA also looks at our ability to engage with social and recreational activities, as carers (spoiler - none.)

Whatever he’s claiming for has also been signed off by someone whose job it is to do so, using evidence that he’ll have had to produce. That’s really the end of it for me. He qualifies for the payment because someone has said he does, and he spends it how he spends it.

I agree, they were just examples on the tip of the iceberg.

Yes, and services such as MH for example, have been decimated, or have such a long waiting list. The situation is very hard, and as some posters have already said on this thread, their DLA, or PIP payments are being used to pay for private therapy, etc. The work that needs to be done in the NHS, to bring it back to where it needs to be, will take years, imo.

I take it you’ve never had a serious health issue or a chronic health condition, which hinders your ability try to take control of your own life, hard as you may try? Maybe try living with stage 4 cancer and the side effects of chemo?

Care for a severely disabled individual costs hundreds of thousands pa. Most people will never be able to afford that no matter how sensible they are, how much they think things through or how much planning they do.

Please stop it! The guy worked full time and was perfectly fine engaging with people online! He has his own money like any other working person! It's a season ticket so he can stand in a chaotic football terrace jeering and shouting! The amount of people claiming they can't work due to anxiety or depression and you think the tax payer should buy them all expensive season tickets! You are the issue! Your expectations are absolutely ludicrous! There's no excuse for buying a normal working guy a season ticket! How much do you think they cost! We don't have magic money trees to give those who don't need it a free gift! He chose what to spend the money on anyway! Don't invent things!

Why are you shouting at everyone.

I didn’t assess the guy, neither did you. He’s evidently not a “normal working guy” or he wouldn’t be receiving that benefit.

Have you ever filled that paperwork in, or provided the evidence you need for it?

And I don’t think we should buy “them all” a season ticket at all. I don’t want one, for a start.

I'm supportive of disability benefits in 95% of the cases. But I remember recently when I went to party conference I met a disabled lad. He's 34, had cerebral palsy all his life. He did manage to do school and went to uni. He does have some mobility issues and uses a walking stick.

He lives independently on his own with a pet (even though his mum he's close with his only 2 streets away).

He has worked here and there and his last job was at citizen's advice. I don't think he's worked in a while. But he doesn't find work easy because "requires too much brain/thinking" or something like that and well yes he has cerebral palsy.

But to me I thought okay you have enough benefits to have your own place (could live with mum still and save the taxpayer money), pay your bills and walk your dog. You can do all this but can't work even a bit? I can't remember how long he's been off work and if he's trying to look for work. But I understand why people might doubt it. But then again I don't know the whole situation and I can't judge without knowing the whole facts.

I agree and as i've wrote previously i tgink those with the most severe disabilities who will always need substantial support should get that in some form or another.

There are those who claim pip/dla who aren't severely impacted. Many disabilities affect people ar varying levels.

I truly believe that many of the people claiming could get along without it and that some people exagerare their conditions to get pip or dla. I know people who have.

I also think that this is happening with all sorts of adjustments that are there to help the disabled (free/ discounted carers tickets, speedy entrance or queue avoiding, specific seating, the use of accessible toilets, blue badge spaces....). I'd like eveything tightened up around disability because the abuse of the systems there to support the disabled is making them useless for those who genuinely need them and for whom they aren't just convenient or a nicety.

You can't have a sensible discussion on this topic.

Sensible ideas that don't harm the most needy:

• equipment/ cars provided, not cash
• mental health conditions only supported for length of treatment.
• vouchers for food
• money instead put into services rather than cash

You are correct about being not in the position to judge, because you don't have all the facts to hand. Some other posters would do well to heed this. As you say though, he has worked in the past. Who knows, he may be applying for jobs, and getting nowhere. It is easier to find employment as an able bodied person, that is just a fact.

So you don’t actually believe it is “planning not privilege” as you wrote yesterday?

Some people really need to go outside and touch some grass.

"sensible"? Seriously? You mean you're lucky that your child got a diagnosis when he was young. I was born with my disabilities. I still have no proper diagnosis or prognosis

You mean you're privileged to not have a child with a rare disability

… enough benefits to walk his dog? That is free.

We need our children to learn to live independently, if they can. We’re hoping for semi-independently in supported living, for example. We need to prepare them for that when they’re adults, because one day we’ll die and therefore obviously not be here.

As callous as this sounds, they need to be provided with a back up, or at least the planning of one.