Is it possible to have a sensible discussion about disability benefits?

[Pjnow]

According to Google 10% of working age people are in receipt of PIP and 6% of 0-15yos receive DLA.

I'm a proper lefty who believes absolutely in the welfare state, a safety net and that we should care properly for those with disabilities. A society should be judged on how it cares for its most vulnerable.

However 10% in receipt of disability benefits can't be sustainable. I know many people receiving PIP also work, it's not about that.

I'm just wondering what (if anything) can be done to make sure those who need support get it, without paying it to 10% of the population. I know not all disabilities are visble etc, but 10%?!

"According to Google 10% of working age people are in receipt of PIP and 6% of 0-15yos receive DLA."

Considering that 23% of working age adults are disabled, and 11% of children are disabled, the PIP rate is pretty low, actually.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9602/

I'm coming to this late, but I've just been quoted £5500 for the wheelchair adaptations that DD1 needs. That's 50 weeks worth of her PIP for daily living. So almost a whole year's PIP so that she can get around.

I am sure some people think she would get that free, or she should be "grateful " to have a wheelchair without adaptions.

Yes. I am grateful for the wheelchair she has. She shouldn't have the wheelchair she has because NHS policy is that she should have a basic wheelchair, and thanks to the engineer who sat with the OT, trying to adjust the wheelchair so she could push it, he argued for her to have an active wheelchair that was lighter. However, she still can't self-propel for more than a few metres, and can't lift the front wheels so she can get up dropped kerbs. Wheelchair services don't deal with that. They have said she needs a power chair, but only people who need hoists get those in my area, so she doesn't qualify. So it's down to us to get a power assist device so she can move.

@Lougle Some people have no clue what disabled people and their families go through how mentally and physically exhausting and expensive just living a life is.

That’s a shutdown though.

Our constitution doesn’t allow for these.

I think they really don't. We live 4 minutes walk from our village and we are lucky enough to have 5 different routes to get there. With her current wheelchair set up, even if she could self-propel for long enough, and even if she could leave the house without us (she's an adult but has LD), all five routes prevent her from independently getting to the village centre. One route has a speed bump and dropped kerbs that are too high. The second has dropped kerbs that are too high, a path that sits too high on the road, a railing that requires a sharp right turn, and tree roots that have made the pavement uneven. The third has a steep hill up, then a steep hill down. The fourth has a steep hill down, dropped kerbs that don't line up so she has to wheel along a busy road to cross, then paths that are too narrow with overgrown hedgerows. The final route has a steep hill down.

It's really not easy and then people wonder why disabled people need Motability cars.

Is that not a valid question?
There is a cut off to benefits at the point you are considered not poor enough.

I think with long term conditions such as ASD the idea that you need lifelong benefits is off.

The government has 1.1 trillion a year from taxes etc. There is clearly some money. It might be being spent on other things, or not be enough to have exactly what we all want. But there is lots and lots of money.

The US government shuts down all the time, under loads of presidents. This happens all the time. They do the budget every year and very often, there is a shut down. We don’t copy them. What are you talking about?

We do not have the possibility a government shut down or budget being held back. It’s not how our government works.

It's really not easy and then people wonder why disabled people need Motability cars

Thats not what people are wondering about mobility cars. Lots live rurally or semi rurally on minimum wage where public transport is next to useless. It’s difficult to see someone in a brand new car, insurance paid, driving around with no need to work.
I know it’s not a race to the bottom but it would be good if the “levelling up” helped everyone fairly.

They send a letter saying “you’ve aged out of DLA and need to apply for PIP or your benefits will stop”. That’s it. It’s not like they’re phoning you personally begging you to take their money 😂.

Do you? well that is personal opinion with no evidence of a person's needs. And the government organisations who look at applications and assessors do decide who is disabled enough. I know the "tax payer" thinks that my personal medical information is public property but it really isn't.

@Arrrrrrragghhh

I think with long term conditions such as ASD the idea that you need lifelong benefits is off.

Is it? Because I’ve got a 9 year old who I can tell you however many years in advance will never work, and will be reliable on someone forever. How would you like him to eat?

I know it’s not a race to the bottom but it would be good if the “levelling up” helped everyone fairly.

Life isn’t fair. Not everyone is disabled. They don’t require the same “levelling up,” and let’s face it - could choose not to live rurally and not drive.

That is very much dependent on the individual. Yes of course there are some people with ASD who manage work fine but there is the other side of the coin where others will need constant care and supervision and will not be able to work.

You can’t lump people together. My daughter is bright but has Autism. She hasn’t left the house properly in well over a year. CAMHS support is none existent. Was awaiting appt to start CBT told this month now been told not to bet on it being this year.

it’s a shitshow. I spent her DLA money this month on having a private assessment as we cannot wait any longer.

but yeah the real problem is the PIP/DLA claimants.

I honestly can’t believe people fall for it.

My dd will never work. I think people forget that ASD is a spectrum. I have ASD and ADHD myself, I do not claim PIP as I can function reasonably well, I can work and I can care for myself. My DD has a diagnosis of ASD and is classed as non verbal, she is 19 and I still need to help her bath/shower and clean her teeth each day, she can’t go out alone without at least one carer, she attends specialist provision which will end next September and then there’s nowhere for her to go, her PIP will be taken from her to pay for care if she leaves home. I will be caring for her 24/7 and will be unable to work. It annoys me that people assume ASD means a person just struggles with social interaction and they don’t want to work, there are a percentage of people with autism that are low functioning and/or very high needs who will never live independently and these are the ones given high rate PIP.

I don't understand the obsessing over ASD and other ND conditions and thinking they are the same level of disability or condition ?

It’s always mostly the invisible ones they pick on tbf and the idea that everyone with ND are the same so if one person is capable of working then so is everybody else.

it’s incredibly ignorant and a little bit stupid IMHO. No two individuals will have the same level of need across the board. I’m not sure why people struggle to grasp that.

I think we need to tighten up rules around how much parents pay in CMS, the consequences around not supporting a child properly, even for unemployed non resident parents, how we view parents that refuse to parent. In some countries not supporting your child is considered child neglect and can be punishable with prison. Once that is tightened up it is fairer to consider it within UC claims. Why in our country is it seen as acceptable for the first parent to drop out and only neglectful when the second parent does it. Proper financial support from the Dad would save our government a fortune.

It is just a little bit of stupidity, willful ignorance and entitlement i think. The physical disability I.have is also on a spectrum and one person might not have the same difficulties as another.

I think some people assume that autism is just a quirky personality type that means you prefer quiet spaces.

A convenient excuse to not work and get some free stuff.

They’re welcome to come and look at the aftermath of a just a few hours in our house and see if their mind is changed.

That makes no sense to me. If you have a longterm condition you are going to need longterm support.

you have less chance to have built up a bit of your own wealth before becoming disabled, and less chance of recovering and returning to work because its a permanent situation.

It is valid to have a cut off to say you arent disabled enough to need state support. That is indeed the system we already have. You have to have a certain level of disability to get an award at all, and then the award is bigger for more severe disabilities. Only 37% of claims are awarded for the biggest amount. We could decide that the cut off for lower awards was higher. That may be what happens.

you also cant asses the level of disability by condition, it has to be the impact the condition has as so many disabilities vary hugely. Otherwise youd get someone who was incontinent, non verbal and no sense of danger, who was tube fed, with no award because some ignorant fool thinks asd is just finding clothes itchy and being rude.

My experience is that previously to pup coming in claiming for mental health, neuro divergent conditions, etc was challenging. A physical disability or illness was easier. After Pip harder to claim for a physical disability or chronic illness as the criteria seemed to be weighted to how independent you where. So the more reliant you are on other people the more likely you are to have a successful claim.
In my family it is actual struggle to get an award for some one with a life limiting, degenerative illness but easier for the person with autism who is relatively high functioning.
It does baffle me.

It is no longer just survival of the fittest, that’s the bottom line and with medical advances this will only increase.

Medical advances will ultimately be our own demise.

Most of the enormous rise must surely be related to the number of people going onto PIP before state pension age and then continuing on it for the next potentially 20+ years after pension age. It is the rising of state pension age that has caused this. Then if people are in receipt of the mobility element as well this just continues as well wheras a pensioner becoming disabled after state pension age cannot qualify for mobility and potentially gets half the disability payments that someone on PIP gets. No wonder we see a sudden rise in people applying just before turning state pension age ! Once people are past state pension age there's barely any checks/ very brief ten year review etc.