Is it possible to have a sensible discussion about disability benefits?

[Pjnow]

According to Google 10% of working age people are in receipt of PIP and 6% of 0-15yos receive DLA.

I'm a proper lefty who believes absolutely in the welfare state, a safety net and that we should care properly for those with disabilities. A society should be judged on how it cares for its most vulnerable.

However 10% in receipt of disability benefits can't be sustainable. I know many people receiving PIP also work, it's not about that.

I'm just wondering what (if anything) can be done to make sure those who need support get it, without paying it to 10% of the population. I know not all disabilities are visble etc, but 10%?!

If a person needs care and support then they are able to ask for an assessment under the care act and the local authority can fund some care and support.

If a sample of people receiving PIP for depression were looked at I would guess that next to none are paying for someone to help them with their hygeine/motivation etc. But perhaps that kind of investigation would be a sensible step for the Government to look at how this money is being used. You cold tell me that is how the money is being used. I can tell you that I don't believe that but a study sample could actually find out.

I have a friend who has 50/50 custody of his son. Why should the court decide who is resident when both parents are?
If the mum was the resident parent then she would get no CM as he is unable to work and is on benefits.

Just because they can request an assessment and the LA is supposed to fund some care and support, it doesn't actually mean that's what happens or if it does happen, it happens incredibly slowly and you have to fight for every scrap which can be too much for some people. Especially when they are already struggling with their mental health.

Because it is the parents that should pay for the child to the best of their ability. It is their child and they should pay to raise it. The state should help when they are not able to not when they are able to. Yes if a woman was the resident parent and her ex had no income the state would have to support in full - but if her ex is a millionaire why on earth should the state pay a single penny?

They dont need to be paying for someone to help. They just have to have the need.
My boyfriend and mum help with that aspect of my life. They dont get paid for it but I get PIP because I need other people to help me with that.

I’ve paid tax all my life. I’m now on PIP.

I’m kind of sick that I’ve paid for UC because employers won’t pay a decent wage. Why should l as a basic rate tax payer bankroll a big company because they won’t pay a living wage? Because this is what is happening,

I was happy to pay tax for Pip, but for UC to prop up a company😏no not really.

So as I said the condition isn't costing you anything relative to someone that doesn't have it.

@Pjnow It’s not 10% it’s just under 9%
completely agree with @pointythings austerity
is the root cause, along with the aftermath of the covid pandemic, how it affected the economy.
Should the government and previous one take accountability, with the decisions they’ve made, or is it just easier to put the spotlight on people with disabilities rather than address the government(s) incompetence.Remember Boris! the conservatives did a lot of damage.

but if I did not have my boyfriend and mum then I would need to pay and that is why I get PIP
It is not about what you spend but what you need

We are now going around in circles. You believe that without your partner and mum you would pay for someone to help you with your hygiene and motivation. I suspect that close to no-one with depression pays someone to help them with their hygiene and motivation. Where that help is needed I believe it is much more likely that the local authority funds it under the care act. The only way to know, rather than exchange anecdotes is for the Government or some other independent body to conduct a study of how people spend their PIP.

I need help due to my autism not depression.

It’s about need, not who carries it out.

Ha ha. The local authority fund next to nothing. Believe me it’s a joke.

At my worse l was completely bedbound. They agreed l might need personal care, but not anyone to clean or do washing or make meals. So someone would wash my hair but not my clothes, whilst l starved.

They don’t want to fund ANYTHING.

We are monetising perfectly ordinary family support that has always existed and that is why benefits are creaking under the strain. We have already done it with elderly care which in large part is unavoidable because almost everyone now has to work and is not available to look after the elderly. We are now starting to believe that if your own mum and boyfriend have to help you then the state should for some reason be paying for this - even though you are not actually paying anything at all.

Families also creak under strain. The poster would be better getting in outside care.

My PIP pays for other things such as the costs of the support groups I go to and the taxis to get there. My mum and boyfriend cant help with that.
I used Hello Fresh for a while to make sure I ate healthy and had set meals as I was struggling with food too. Now my mum helps me with batch cooking.
I self harm so use PIP to buy first aid supplies.

Again you get PIP based on need and not actual costs. I am not doing anything wrong so please dont make me out to be some fraud.

Not everyone has family support though. It can't be assumed that everyone has a family who are able and willing to support them.

and as pp's have said, PIP (and DLA) are based on care needs.

No you are not doing anything wrong.

We are all working under the system as it is.

In my own case my 7 year old non verbal son receives DLA and honestly he doesn't cost £550 each month than a 7 year old without his needs.
We filled in his form honestly and that is what he was awarded. He does have those needs but it doesn't cost us lots of money - The big hit is loss of earnings mostly.

He limits my and my husbands ability to work so as a household we are poorer but as I said previously I don't think that is what DLA is for.

Someone could say to me why would you claim if he doesn't cost you more money but this is the system and that is his money. So is it my place to say we won't claim that money (which as the letters say is his money not mine) but as a consequence he can't go swimming/get a zoo pass/keep the house so warm or the fridge stocked?

While people say that PIP/DLA is for the extra costs of a disability it isn't actually linked to costs at all.

It doesn’t happen now, the father would have been reported to the C.S.A if the mother was making a claim for benefit (child support agency, who calculate child support) and maintenance deducted out of their salary.So no, if the father is on the birth certificate, they can’t refuse to pay child maintenance.This has been in place, since 1993, has now been replaced by the child maintenance service.

Yes and we all want everyone to be well supported (not sarcastic) but the reality is if everyone starts charging and claiming for all the care provided within families for people with physical or mental difficulties the costs are going to continue to rocket. So perhaps we need a system where the money awarded is linked to actual costs rather than notional costs that are not actually being paid.

My child who receives DLA absolutely costs us more than a child of his age without his needs. It's always going to vary depending on the individuals needs.

That would cost a lot in admin.

It would cost money to implement a new system. Potentially offsetting any potential savings if any savings would be found.

Also, who would decide what the actual costs are when needs can vary so much even for same/similar conditions? I wouldn't trust the government with that regarding my disabled child. Would you?

So in a system based more on the costs of a disability you should be awarded money based on those extra costs.

@Winter2020
This is my situation too (not quite as DD is physically disabled and the physical toll of caring for her is big on me, but doesn’t”cost as such) - DLA is awarded on the level of care needs, as you know, not the daily cost care (as much of the public would have you believe is “hundreds or thousands of pounds per disabled child).
But.. the difficulty in communicating to the public what the actual cost to a family/parent of children with profound needs seems impossible and furthermore to get them to u understand that the loss isn’t covered by a welfare benefit.
Arguably, it should be.
IThis is where Carer’s Allowance could be improved - but I’m sure you and most people in good health (so far) like me would prefer flexible well paid, to one’s abilities, employment, with adequate care to enable this.
The fact that all carers receive the same amount - just like disabled children get one of two amounts and “that’s it” as it were, pushes up (probably a minority) of benefits that could otherwise be avoided but fuck it - I’ve been unemployed (now part time minimum wage term time job) for 7 years, through no fault of mine or my daughter or my husband for that matter, and the £89 a week in carer’s allowance and £400 per month in DLA is what’s available, I need it and I will take it.
It doesn’t come close to what I was earning before I had DD.
But the public will repeat ad nauseum that it’s not the taxpayers problem. Not all of course, but there’s a growing trend