Labour isn't working - Thread 15

[TheNuthatch]

A chat thread for those who don't like this Labour government.

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

Previous thread
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5430868-labour-isnt-working-thread-14?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

My dogs quite like Starmer.

In their defence, because they are very good boys, it's just that they get an extra walk whenever I need to clear my head from the idiocy du jour.

I just told dh about your dh's impressions. Told him he needs to up his game. He's currently spouting twaddle at me whilst pinching his nose 😂.

Also sending 💐 to those struggling right now and of course echoing the thanks to @TheNuthatch for your sterling work in keeping these threads on the straight and narrow.

@Parsley4321 tell more about your horse - I want all the details!

Thanks for the hugs, right back at ya 🫂

I actually laughed. That’s brilliant 😬😂

Your boys have learned that you'll need a stomp whenever Starmer is on the telly 😂. Bless em.

I think they've learned that when they hear me shout Bloody Fucking Hell, What Now! it's worth lurking by the front door.

😂 love that

Thanks for the good wishes and hugs. See y'all soon xx

The UK isn't the best place if you end up having wealth. People can despise you like Sunak experienced. The US values it immeasurably more where money is religion. Good or bad, that's the reality.

And when politics hurts people's pockets, they suddenly start caring who they voted for- Sunak warned Labour would tax to the hilt and he seemed to be ignored despite his financial background and experience. And as it's very well established by now, people typically start left wing and go farther right as they get older/more fiscal responsibility comes their way.

For now, the bed has been made and those with money and don't agree with current fiscal policy tend to leave. They vote with their wallets. And the exodus of such very many people has already happened and continues to.

Couple of weeks ago I was saying to my 15 year old 'I think we are swearing a bit too much at the moment. We should both stop really, don't you think?'

He was silent for a second then said ; 'But we can still say 'This fucking Government', can't we mum?'.

We decided that we can.

Morning all. After reflecting on my own little family bubble yesterday I started to think about issues affecting my own area but don’t really touch me. Forgive me if what I write is going to seem cold but it is concerning how desensitised I have become to such news.

Just woken up to news that there has been a 4th stabbing in 3 days in my area. What is shocking is that no-one is shocked on my local fb group - the news is just shared. We do live in an area that (I think) has the highest knife crime in England.

“Fortunately” I don’t worry for own DC despite two deaths by stabbing occurring near their school, (as selfish as this will sound) as knife crime is all gang related. I do worry that crime will be a way my area will vote Reform. It is only the Reform councillor who is prolific on social
media and I read “two tier policing” a lot.

This has been happening for a while though so not sure if is a “Labour problem” and what can ever be done to reduce it.

Because those elderly asset rich will not be targeted as Labour voters, so fair game for the spiteful and cynical vote-buyers.

It's too stupid for so so many reasons. It's counter productive and destructive. It would destroy London. People who rent their London houses to City workers will just heap it on to their tenants. If, of course, the entire finance sector does not move, which they probably will. Or if it is on equity not value they'll just mortgage it.

Stupid, ill-thought out. Spiteful. Attack on the kind of workers the Labour party doesn't like. So it's sure to be implemented.

Thank you for all your kind words @CaveMum his name is Bear and he’s 18 15-3 SSH x cob he has a very strong mind and a big personality I bought him after Covid when I had lost my three businesses and was a civil servant 😳. Things are getting tougher I am a landlord boo hiss my son was educated on a bursary at public school and I am a ducker and diver aka self employed grafter who runs a childrenswear company and is on day 14 of working looking forward to a run of 30 days from this weekend. Someone said upthread how they have seen incompetent and corrupt government but jeez never in my life time have I seen such a mess. I have several friends who we start every conversation with this fucking followed by cabinet person plan or government
do you think any of these freaks have friends ?!
Photo of the beast the picture makes me happy

I am glad of this thread. I had no intention of voting Labour at the GE and did not, As a teacher, I value education. Taxing the only tool of levelling up is spiteful and harmful to working class children, I’ll never forgive them for it. As a swing voter, I’ll never vote for them again. Genuinely, I don’t know how any educational professional can support this. It’s a shocking attack on social mobility dressed up as fairness. In my area, the local private school has stopped out reach work, This has actively harmed white, working class children. That’s relevant because the government’s own research shows that this has now become the most underachieving cohort. Again, unforgivable that opportunity to level up has been ripped away through spite. Yet, the people most impacted think it’s a win. Punishing the rich eh?

I am also sick of seeing how much is going on welfare and being gaslit into being told: DLA/PIP fraud does not exist. Generations of benefit claimants are vanishingly rare. Rubbish. I see it daily. That does not make me a Tory bot or Shill. In fact, the underachieving of white, working class children has been linked to: lack of of parental engagement and aspiration. Poverty and home life play a role. Yet, I’ll see all these parents turn up with the latest trainers, hair, nails, lashes and filler, new tattoos and expensive thermal mugs etc. Then you get the request to fill out the DLA form. It’s why I’m against the abolition of the two child cap. I see families coining off huge amounts, it doesn’t go the children. These are serial benefits claimants with no aspiration for their children. Just claim benefits. I have had children tell me that school is pointless as they don’t need a job. Again, not rubbish, this is my daily life.

The curriculum and system isn’t for for purpose, it is also failing these children. Yet, teachers can only do so much as funding is so poor. This is going to get much worse whilst the private sector is suffering because of Labour policy. As a public sector worker, I’m often shunned for my support of the private sector. However, that is the magic money tree, we don’t get funded via fresh air.

I am now experiencing extreme violence daily and the situation is getting worse. Every chance these children had of levelling up and scoring a lucky break are being destroyed, one by one.

Do we know that the white working class are underachieving or unambitious? Or are they asked to carry the stats for the generationally unemployed whose ambitions have been hobbled by multiple lifetimes of family state dependency?

It feels like society is struggling. I don't know either what can be done about gang crime, and do see how devastating it is to the families involved. I've had friends move away from their area due to specific fear for one of their their DC's safety (as a parent, you generally do know whether your kid is vulnerable - although of course there is a risk for everyone). The ways I see this falling into government remit are:

a) job opportunities for young people
b) education including non-academic routes and apprenticeships
c) the private sector economy being strong, to provide the 2 above!
d) the economy generally (private sector), since society cohesion diminishes when the economy is bad
e) adequate policing, including targetted stop and search (I know this is contentious)

Don't feel bad about thinking of your bubble. I'm sure that like everyone you do think about wider society. But for everyone, our own experiences and concerns are most immediate.

It's actually why I support representative democracy so strongly rather than proportional representation. We do all have different concerns, and UK-wide conditions and policies do affect people differently. That's why it's so important for MPs to be closely connected to their constituents, so that they can bring those specific consequences to the house, and properly represent their constituents when policies are debated there.

With PR, MPs exist in an elite political class bubble - seeing the impact of their policies on different groups of people in an abstract, ivory-tower way. It also magifies their loyalty to their party, over their loyalty to their constituents. Unfortunately, even with the existing system many career MPs seem to prioritise party loyalty and personal career prospects over being a representative and a champion - but there are still some excellent community focused back benchers.

They are underachieving for four main reasons according to the government research. Lack of parental engagement and aspiration. Those are the two biggies I see. There are parents out there who don’t care, who aren’t engaged and are waiting for the next benefit payment. Generations of learnt helplessness and dependency.

The curriculum isn’t inclusive for children with no life experience. Look at the exam papers, that’s all the proof you need for that.

Poverty and home life. Actually, from what I’ve seen, many parents are able to claim large amounts of money. They know the system. The issue is making sure it’s spent on the children with a proper budget. Oh and making sure DLA/PIP stays for people who really need it.

There is a huge issue with generational welfare dependency and it is actively harming the life chances of children. It needs sorting, not avoided as a difficult topic.

I think this echoes the obfuscation over the impact of different types of immigrants.

In both cases, breaking down statistics on behaviours and outcomes into more specific groups would support much clearer, more effective policy making - but even defining those more-meaningful groups is politically unacceptable.

Obfuscating the reality behind the statistics by merging very different groups is absolutely done for political reasons by the Left, and unchallenged out of fear of being accused of bigotry by all of them.

We need more honesty and more courage from politicians.

Okay, this is my pet peeve, this is the flaw in how we use class to identify what is happening. While we have government research - and all academic research actually - that lumbers the working class with the un-working class it will continue to pervert the outcomes of that research and the narrative that follows.

There are plenty of parents out there who don't care, a cursory glance at the school readiness data shows the scale of that neglect, but I'd lay a good good bet that better research and more granular detail would be illuminating when it comes to these social problems.

I agree but it won’t be done. It raises too many questions politicians don’t want to answer.

Yes, just like this. The migrants who come here to work, are among the most productive people in society. Not because they have inherent virtue from being foreign - I've seen that written a few times- but because they are typically young, healthy and aren't vulnerable in any way that makes leaving their family and friends too risky. And they are share an expanded umbrella term with illegal migrants.

And that achieves different things with data, depending on what narrative people are looking to employ

🤣🤣🤣

Whenever I utter that and he's about, it's usually the cue for DS to 'what now?' in that long suffering tone only men can produce😂😂

I listen to a lot of news while I have my headphones on and cooking/ tidying. It has the effect that I can just be quietly doing my thing to full mid-air rant from nowhere. It keeps the family on their toes.