6 in 10 think toilet training isn't necessary?

[dontcomeatme]

https://www.netmums.com/child/education/primary-schools/parents-say-potty-training-and-table-manners-not-essential-before-starting-school

"Commissioned by The Department for Education the poll, which included 2,000 parents with children aged under five, found that six in ten parents said toilet training isn’t essential before starting Reception."

I have known for years the number of children entering school still in nappies has risen, many of the schools around here have had to install changing tables and nappy bins etc. But this number has still shocked me! We're in the middle of potty training our 2.5YO and it's not easy at all, but definitely essential!
What's your view on this? If you have DC at what age did you potty train? Or not as the article suggests?

This doesn't include ND or SEN children. Nor is it a goady thread calling parents lazy. Just genuinely curious, I was really shocked reading the article. Although I suppose its good the NHS have made a "get prepared for school" guide for parents.

Our school (private) has a pre school starts sept after their 3rd bithday and the children must be toilet trained to attend.
We trained my son at about 2.5yo, he was very reluctant but by the time he started school just after his 3rd birthday he had grasped it.
Currently training my daughter, started at 2.5yo, about 4 months in and she wets herself if we dont take her to the loo hourly. It has been a loooong road but im not giving up 😅

The issue with that is 4 can be very young to have any formal diagnosis so some parents would be fined for simply having a disabled child. That's why it won't happen.

I would expect most children to be trained. Most three year olds manage. A few have accidents occasionally. Autistic and disabled kids are slower to train, and not being trained may be a sign of disability.

That’s neglect. Why would you want a perfectly able and healthy child to be in nappies at school?
How very sad for that child. If you can’t be bothered to toilet train then how will you cope with all the demands of supporting your child through the stress of school life and education?
lazy parenting.

Ban disposable nappies, bring back cloth nappies which parents have to wash themselves and ban children from starting Reception unless toilet trained, then watch these attitudes magically disappear!

Which is why a HV would be notified if there's any problems. The majority of children don't have SEN and anyone that raises questions would need to be handled differently. I had a PDA child and an autistic child and they were trained at around 3 years old.

The majority of children are also potty trained by the age of 4. We clearly aren't talking about the vast majority of children here.

My son is almost 10 and is incontinent, sometimes it just isn't possible for whatever reason.

I hate these threads. Many people cannot get their children diagnosed for any SEN needs before school. My DC wasn't diagnosed with anything despite trying really hard to get someone to listen. I tried potty training at 2.5 and didn't put them back i to nappies, but they were still having lots of accidents.

I paid privately for tests on the bladder, kidney etc because GP weren't interested, health visitors weren't interested - no one wanted to help. The way they were going you think they weren't potty trained. They were 7 before they stopped having accidents in school. DC2 dry day and night by 3.

Finally diagnosed with ND at 9 but it's been a slog. So all people saying SEN excluded, you are actually counting them because most are undiagnosed due to the NHS waiting times.

This is hilarious. Our HV didn't care, I tried calling them and begging them for help. They didn't do anything even after the nursery called then after I told them that they weren't listening. Cane round and said, you're probably best going private as NHS won't do anything until they are 6.

@Givemeachaitealatte this sounds so hard. I understand your point and you're right, those kids are probably not being included in the stats or "judgements".
I think by 4 though, even without a diagnosis, if the child is not potty trained coupled with other obvious signs of ND then that should be taken into account. My niece is nearly 3 and we're 99% certain she is ND, just waiting the slow climb up the NHS. The school she's applied to are aware of her needs and possible future diagnosis. They have been great TBF. The HV has not, 100% agree with you there. But thankfully school is on board with parents, she is not potty trained, and not diagnosed x

Couldn’t agree more.

You’re saying excluding SEN, but did the questionnaire? Both my DDs were toilet trained sometime between 2-2.5. But if you asked me “is it essential for a child to be toilet trained before reception” I’d say no. If you said “should parents make every realistic effort, taking into account any specific medical issues of their child, to ensure their child is toilet trained before reception if possible” I’d say yes.

My cousin’s child has no SEN or any form of neurological / developmental delay BUT has a physical disability with issues with all areas, rectum, urethra and vagina requiring extensive surgery when she was months old.

She had to begin reception last month in nappies as she is not continent and possibly will not ever be.

I’d request anyone giving a “wide berth” to a child in a nappy as a previous poster stated to firstly be grateful their child didn’t need that and secondly maybe reflect on the fact that some things aren’t their fucking business because there will be a pile on now about “not meaning it for her” but why should she explain it?

Thanks for showing me that people are so awful, I’ll let my cousin know that if she has any issues I’ll come and support her at pick up and let loose my menopausal rage.

As far as I can tell from the tables the researchers have on their site, no it doesn't exclude SEND or medical issues relating to toileting. Some of the parents surveyed will have DC with SEN and some of the staff are staff at special schools or inclusion units in mainstream schools.

This is my son. He has no development delays but is physically disabled including incontinence which will also likely be life long.

He's almost 10 and has never had any issues with another child because of it.

Glad to hear fingers crossed that my cousins child has the same experience

We've found adults to be more judgemental than children. Fingers crossed she does, I know how worrying it is.

It’s clear to me from this thread it’s adults, as a family we encouraged my cousin to get her an EHCP as they assumed that the school would understand. My experience on this site is opposite so I was very vocal

it depends how questions are worded. For example, mine could read and do very basic sums before starting school. I would have ticked not essential for number and letter recognition as they are taught that in reception.

I have a read of mn most days and never saw any of those threads. So this one is of interest to me. And it would appear the other people commenting.
Is it really that hard to just scroll past if a thread isn’t of interest to you?

To be fair to the poster they were on here every few weeks last year and the beginning of this one due to articles in the paper. I haven't seen one for a while though. They are upsetting for me personally due to the above.

Even the most neglected children generally are potty trained for school and these articles are taking aim at undiagnosed SEN children and parents who constantly fight the system.

Then 6 in10 shouldn't have kids.

Except where children have SEN etc, if they aren't toilet trained by the time they start school one of the parents should have to accompany them every day to change them when necessary - I expect the vast majority would be trained within a week or two. (If the parents refuse, then the child should be excluded and the parents fined). Teachers are there to teach...including teaching the parents their job.

Some SEND children aren't diagnosed as young as 4 so it would punish some parents for having disabled children.

I think that assumes that any child with SEN is able to access a diagnosis before they start school. We don’t have a situation where parents can just go to the GP and be referred for immediate support.