6 in 10 think toilet training isn't necessary?

[dontcomeatme]

https://www.netmums.com/child/education/primary-schools/parents-say-potty-training-and-table-manners-not-essential-before-starting-school

"Commissioned by The Department for Education the poll, which included 2,000 parents with children aged under five, found that six in ten parents said toilet training isn’t essential before starting Reception."

I have known for years the number of children entering school still in nappies has risen, many of the schools around here have had to install changing tables and nappy bins etc. But this number has still shocked me! We're in the middle of potty training our 2.5YO and it's not easy at all, but definitely essential!
What's your view on this? If you have DC at what age did you potty train? Or not as the article suggests?

This doesn't include ND or SEN children. Nor is it a goady thread calling parents lazy. Just genuinely curious, I was really shocked reading the article. Although I suppose its good the NHS have made a "get prepared for school" guide for parents.

And yet according to the report (copy and pasted):

76% of parents thought that a child should be toilet trained before starting Reception.

Make it make sense.

Was that copy and pasted from the article? That makes zero sense 😑

I think the question may have been confusing or the results are now being presented in a Skewed way.

I don’t believe that 6 in 10 parents don’t think they should potty train before school, or believe that it is a teachers job to potty train.

But it’s likely that 6 in 10 parents are aware of the legal position, which is that children can still start school on time even if they are not potty trained - ie it’s not essential that they be potty trained before they start school.

I read that as School should be teaching things beyond what is the parents responsibility, not wasting their time potty training.

How can a 4/5 year old learn effectively sitting in their own piss?

Isn’t it just basic manners to ensure other children around yours at school can’t smell shit in class?

I wonder how the parents of school nappied children react when their child has to put up with inconvenience?

If you send your child to school in nappies you are a dreadful parent, for so any reasons, but many related to your own child only. Yes I would judge, yes I would actively encourage my children to give them a wide berth.

Don’t these parents want more for their kids?

Perhaps the legal position needs to be changed then.

I think it’s been suggested that parents could be made, if the school wants to, to sign an agreement before a child can start in reception, toilet trained is one of the criteria. It’s going to happen.

You would soon see how not lazy these parents are if they can’t dump their child at school all day “for a break” - poor kids, imagine being so young, trusting and so uncared for.

I trained both of mine within a week, at 18m. I did take time off work to do it as I wanted the first few days to be consistent. In the months leading up to it, they had plenty of nappy off time where I taught them what a wee/poo was and how to hold it.

SEN/medical reasons aside, kids shouldn’t be starting school in nappies. Aside from anything else, mine would have been mortified to have pooed in a nappy in the classroom, kids at that age are unintentionally cruel, and things can stick with them for the length of their schooling. My 12 yo still reminisces about the time their teacher let out a loud unintentional fart at carpet time - in reception

Statistics are meaningless unless you know the wording of the question.

I have 5 DC and I let them lead potty training rather than forcing it. I tried to force it with first two DC around 2-2.5 years but they really didn’t take to it at all so waited until they were all around 3 and they actively seemed to want to train. This includes my youngest DC who is ND and non verbal. They started holding wee in and not wanting to poo in nappies in particular. Waking up dry was another indicator of being ready. It was a real painless experience for me with all of them and they were fully ‘trained’ if you like within a week.

No worries. Here you go.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5418539-keir-starmer-sick-and-tired-of-hearing-about-children-who-arent-school-ready

25+ pages mainly about toilet training

At my school we have 4 children in one Reception class that are not toilet trained. 3/4 of these children should actually be in Y1 but deferred entry. All have SEN but all parents haven't actually tried to train them.
In my class we have one child who is very high needs non verbal autistic and is toilet trained. It is possible.
We had to start saying that if there was no medical or SEN need they should be toilet trained as at one point half of our nursery class were in nappies. It is now zero. It wasn't because they couldn't do it it was because the parents hadn't tried. I actually have 1 child that still hasn't started as parents are 'too busy' to train him.

You are surely joking? Have you any idea how schools work? You think we have time to potty train children? I’m stunned.

My children were born (just) in the Sure Start era. I obviously knew how to toilet train and when but is this an output of austerity - with support like health visitors, children's centres and parenting lessons being axed?

Schools should be potty training children?? You can’t be serious here, I really hope you’re not!

Just no.

The press come across a problem in society and say “schools should be teaching this”. They're already expected to teach British values. The National Curriculum is full to the brim with things they have to teach. And also toilet training is not a case of “well, children, today we’re going to learn about using the toilet so you can stop using those nappy things”. It’s a process that takes a lot of time and patience. Schools are already on their arses financially and some schools are having to make redundancies of non-teaching staff, so the staff are just not there to be able to handle this for up to 30 kids.

Why should schools take over the parents' roles? At the least parents should toilet train their own children.

DS was closer to 3 when we started, led by him and nursery also mentioned they thought he was ready. DD was much earlier at 2, totally led by her. But I was always intending they were fully trained by the time they started school.

I work in a special school where the children who come into our tiny class all have severe autism..non verbal, challenging behaviour etc etc. Out of eight, two are out of nappies, the rest still in them. but by the end of the year probably three more will be continent because we support the parents in a very active toileting programme. and generally our parents are working hard to make it work. The others may take longer. These children have huge challenges but with consistency (and a lot of spare clothes) they get there. It's part of our remit as a special school, but I feel really sorry for the mainstream (joint premises ) who have several in their class still in nappies and not the staffing to manage it effectively.
I just cannot fathom why NT children are left un trained. The cost, their dignity.
One of my own four has autism (special schooled etc) and we had to work twice as hard as his siblings but he was still out before four, the rest aged 2/2.5

Too many children are starting school woefully unskilled in so many areas. I've been in Early Years (mainstream and Special Ed) for 20+ years and children have poorer skills while there are way too many parents who literally expect school to be atheir beck and call, emailing constantly, making demands, while doing nothing themselves.to ensure their children are set up for success. The ones whose children are well prepared are increasiningly in the minority (and it's a 'nice' area not one where social deprivation can be blamed)

Rant over. Toilet train your kids, make sure they can use cutlery and get themselves dressed and undressed!

OK I now have the data.

It seems to have come from the 2024 survey after all.

The question seems to be:

"Please rank up to five of the following skills based on how important they are to ensuring your child can access the full range of cognitive, social, emotional and physical opportunities that Reception presents."

Then the options to choose from are:

Be toilet trained (that is, toileting 'mishaps' occur occasionally rather than frequently)

Be able to communicate their needs

Be able to eat and drink independently (i.e. using cutlery, drinking out of an open cup)

Be able to listen/respond to simple instruction

Be able to use basic language skills (i.e. can say their name, are able to communicate their needs, answer questions, etc.)

Be able to hold a pencil or crayon (i.e. mark making)

Be able to dress on their own (i.e. putting on coat, dressing themselves after using the toilet)

Be able to play/share with other children

Be able to use basic numeracy skills (i.e. can count to ten)

Be able to sit still

To not get overly upset when away from you/another parent

Be able to use books correctly (i.e. no swiping or tapping as if using an electronic device)

end of list

Note that nowhere does it say that items outside of the top 5 are not important or necessary. It just asked people to rank the top 5 skills.

Oops, posted too soon - the 60% number seems to come from the fact that 40% of parents chose potty training as the #1 priority. (And I myself certainly wouldn't put it at #1 given some other items, like being able to speak and understand instructions).

However, potty training is by far the most common item chosen as #1 - the next most-chosen item as #1 is being able to communicate their needs, at 15%. So it's a really biased way to interpret the survey to say 60% don't think potty training is necessary. Overwhelmingly, parents say it is important.

If you add together the percentages, 49% of parents chose one of these 5 options as #1:

Communicate their needs
Eat and drink (use cutlery etc)
Listen to instructions
Basic language skills (can speak)
Hold pencil/crayon

69% of parents put potty training in the top 5 most important things.

These are the things chosen to be in the top 5 by over half of respondents:

Toilet training (69%)
Communicate their needs (67%)
Listen to instructions (66%)
Eat and drink independently (use cutlery) (58%)
Basic language (can speak) (52%)

It's worth remembering kids with SEN often aren't given an assessment and diagnosis until well after reception age, toilet issues are an early sign but getting them diagnosed and an ehcp takes years sometimes

Thanks @BertieBotts for digging deeper, make so much more sense! And what a bizarre survey. I wouldn’t even know how to rank those as they’re all so important.

@BertieBotts always coming to the rescue! Thank you 💐

I agree with another PP what a bizarre way to ask those questions, I wouldn't be able to rank them either! It's like choosing between your child being potty trained or knowing how to talk, ridiculous.

So just a click bait article after all 🙄 x

A pack of nappies is a fiver in Lidl - two packs a month. It's not earth-shattering once they get past 18m. (Saying this as someone who trained at 22m).

I think a lot of people are seduced by the marketing campaign that is "readiness". The idea that if a child is ready it will take half a day and a pack of buttons.

My son took to it straight away, but it was still week 3 when he really cracked it and made it successfully every time.

But ND aside, there's no reason a child can't learn before or around 2 - and those learning at 4 have the disadvantage of it being a very engrained habit.

They should fine parents who are sending their untrained children into school. Any parent who is having difficulty training should be required to contact the HV to address this in case there's SEN or physical barriers to training.

Parents should be required to come into school and change their wet or soiled child. They'd soon shape up then.