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Original poster

Labour isn't working - Thread 10

994 replies

TheNuthatch · 24/09/2025 11:33

A chat thread for those who don't like this Labour government.

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

Previous thread:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5411817-labour-isnt-working-thread-9?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

OP posts:
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66
EasternStandard · 25/09/2025 11:37

DenizenOfAisleOfShame · 25/09/2025 11:29

I can see the force in that argument. Whatever else Reform is or isn’t, it’s directed by people who instinctively understand the importance and risk of markets.

Burnham and the great majority of Labour is foolish to think we can operate outside of huge market forces.

The difficulty, though, is that Reform is courting working class voters, many of them in the poorest constituencies in the country, with high unemployment, poor health indices and large numbers of benefit claimants. Reform has no realistic means of making change to the welfare bill and holding onto these voters.

The markets will continue to hammer us if we carrying on writing cheques like a three-armed spendthrift, whether Reform or anyone else.

Show quote history

I know I agree with understanding of business etc but the benefit part is an issue. I think Kemi gets it but I’m not sure it can be turned around by the next GE.

Upstartled · 25/09/2025 12:15

The difficulty, though, is that Reform is courting working class voters, many of them in the poorest constituencies in the country, with high unemployment, poor health indices and large numbers of benefit claimants. Reform has no realistic means of making change to the welfare bill and holding onto these voters

But being poor doesn't mean you appreciate being at the mercy of benefits. A lot of being left-behind is that worklessness was the result of de-industrialisation, poor training opportunities, making a degree the pay to play default for many jobs that do not require a degree and the method of providing benefits so that it was less precarious that piecemeal work opportunities.

I think the route out of much of that is growing the economy.

NoWordForFluffy · 25/09/2025 12:52

twistyizzy · 25/09/2025 10:42

I'm going the other way. This year I've painted my bedroom deep rose and the front room Smurf (wedgewood) blue 😆 Wanting a new bathroom in Jade!

Show quote history

We have dark / deep colours in a few rooms. Can't beat some colour round and about.

This is our downstairs loo!

Labour isn't working - Thread 10

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EasternStandard · 25/09/2025 12:55

Upstartled · 25/09/2025 12:15

The difficulty, though, is that Reform is courting working class voters, many of them in the poorest constituencies in the country, with high unemployment, poor health indices and large numbers of benefit claimants. Reform has no realistic means of making change to the welfare bill and holding onto these voters

But being poor doesn't mean you appreciate being at the mercy of benefits. A lot of being left-behind is that worklessness was the result of de-industrialisation, poor training opportunities, making a degree the pay to play default for many jobs that do not require a degree and the method of providing benefits so that it was less precarious that piecemeal work opportunities.

I think the route out of much of that is growing the economy.

Yes I think there’s plenty of people who see the value in setting up a small business and being left to make money. So I’ve changed my mind a bit on that one.

@NoWordForFluffyyou’re upping the game with that downstairs loo!

NoWordForFluffy · 25/09/2025 12:59

It was DH's fault, @EasternStandard, he found the wallpaper whilst in Dunelm and loved it, and the downstairs loo was the only room we'd not decorated yet in the new house. So it got a glow up by default. 🤣🤣

DenizenOfAisleOfShame · 25/09/2025 13:09

Upstartled · 25/09/2025 12:15

The difficulty, though, is that Reform is courting working class voters, many of them in the poorest constituencies in the country, with high unemployment, poor health indices and large numbers of benefit claimants. Reform has no realistic means of making change to the welfare bill and holding onto these voters

But being poor doesn't mean you appreciate being at the mercy of benefits. A lot of being left-behind is that worklessness was the result of de-industrialisation, poor training opportunities, making a degree the pay to play default for many jobs that do not require a degree and the method of providing benefits so that it was less precarious that piecemeal work opportunities.

I think the route out of much of that is growing the economy.

I agree.

The problem is squaring the circumstances for growth with massive and increasing state spending on, among other things, welfare - including, to be frank, pensions.

Every Chancellor has to reconcile income with expenditure. In a state that’s spending money like water that inevitably leads to increased taxation. Which stifles employment and productivity.

That’s where Reeves has gone wrong. Taxing things is not effect-free.

Unless Reform becomes willing to put considerable downward pressure on welfare and other spending it too will fail dismally.

Original poster
TheNuthatch · 25/09/2025 13:32

This week's FON polling.
Blimey 😳

Labour isn't working - Thread 10
OP posts:
Upstartled · 25/09/2025 13:43

DenizenOfAisleOfShame · 25/09/2025 13:09

I agree.

The problem is squaring the circumstances for growth with massive and increasing state spending on, among other things, welfare - including, to be frank, pensions.

Every Chancellor has to reconcile income with expenditure. In a state that’s spending money like water that inevitably leads to increased taxation. Which stifles employment and productivity.

That’s where Reeves has gone wrong. Taxing things is not effect-free.

Unless Reform becomes willing to put considerable downward pressure on welfare and other spending it too will fail dismally.

Show quote history

If I were a betting woman, I don't think either they or perhaps the Tories will have to - so long as Labour remains in power for the next four years - I think that downward pressure on welfare will be forced by the climbing debt interest payments.

DenizenOfAisleOfShame · 25/09/2025 13:56

Upstartled · 25/09/2025 13:43

If I were a betting woman, I don't think either they or perhaps the Tories will have to - so long as Labour remains in power for the next four years - I think that downward pressure on welfare will be forced by the climbing debt interest payments.

Show quote history

That may well be so. And I can see the Tories relishing a re-run of the ‘80s.

But it’s a risky strategy for Reform, a populist ‘none of the above’ protest party. Inheriting a shattered economy - which Labour manifestly did not; present urgencies are all Labour’s own work - is high stakes.

Farage needs to hope that Labour stains itself as the Tories did but has the nouse and decency to work for the long-term good of the country. So they leave office with the economy stable.

Taking over a bankrupt nation will be horrible for a party with no track record or historical roots. Reform can evaporate as quickly as it rose.

Upstartled · 25/09/2025 13:57

TheNuthatch · 25/09/2025 13:32

This week's FON polling.
Blimey 😳

There was a poster on another thread this week who was convinced that Reform would pay a penalty in the order of 5 points for floating the restrictions on legal migration. And, while I may have hoped that they landed back in Conservative hands, that doesn't seem to have actually had much impact.

Upstartled · 25/09/2025 14:04

DenizenOfAisleOfShame · 25/09/2025 13:56

That may well be so. And I can see the Tories relishing a re-run of the ‘80s.

But it’s a risky strategy for Reform, a populist ‘none of the above’ protest party. Inheriting a shattered economy - which Labour manifestly did not; present urgencies are all Labour’s own work - is high stakes.

Farage needs to hope that Labour stains itself as the Tories did but has the nouse and decency to work for the long-term good of the country. So they leave office with the economy stable.

Taking over a bankrupt nation will be horrible for a party with no track record or historical roots. Reform can evaporate as quickly as it rose.

Show quote history

Yes, absolutely, you are right. I was just pointing out that areas that have high unemployment have as much vested interest in growing the economy and not languishing on benefits at least as much as anyone else.

Absentosaur · 25/09/2025 15:56

What a surprise. Said no one.

https://www.businessinsider.com/rich-used-to-flock-to-the-uk-now-theyre-fleeing-2025-6

The October 2024 budget, the first under the newly elected Labour government, introduced sharp hikes in capital gains and inheritance taxes, and new rules targeting non-domiciled residents and family wealth structures took effect in April.

The world's richest people used to flock to the UK. Now, it's bleeding millionaires at a record rate.

The UK faces a record loss of 16,500 millionaires in 2025, driven by tax hikes and post-Brexit economic instability, according to Henley & Partners.

https://www.businessinsider.com/rich-used-to-flock-to-the-uk-now-theyre-fleeing-2025-6

twistyizzy · 25/09/2025 15:57

Absentosaur · 25/09/2025 15:56

What a surprise. Said no one.

https://www.businessinsider.com/rich-used-to-flock-to-the-uk-now-theyre-fleeing-2025-6

The October 2024 budget, the first under the newly elected Labour government, introduced sharp hikes in capital gains and inheritance taxes, and new rules targeting non-domiciled residents and family wealth structures took effect in April.

I bet Reeves is surprised

Upstartled · 25/09/2025 16:11

You'd have to be mad to lend to us. Our repayment plan is currently spend, spend, spend.

twistyizzy · 25/09/2025 16:13

Upstartled · 25/09/2025 16:11

You'd have to be mad to lend to us. Our repayment plan is currently spend, spend, spend.

Exactly, the surprise isn't that no-one wants our debt, it's that anyone would!

twistyizzy · 25/09/2025 16:13

Absentosaur · 25/09/2025 16:08

Edited

Is it me or are they just getting more batshit?

Upstartled · 25/09/2025 16:16

It's not you.

EasternStandard · 25/09/2025 16:24

Absentosaur · 25/09/2025 16:08

Edited

Fgs. Typical of Labour.

DenizenOfAisleOfShame · 25/09/2025 16:32

It’s an interesting and horrifying dynamic at the moment. The government should be about ten years away from desperate fag packet policy measures, leadership challenges and an exodus of staff. That’s what happens in the dying embers of a tired, clapped-out party in power for a long time.

But after 14 months we’re here.

I am convinced this is the product of Labour being self-righteous liars who schemed, rather than thought and prepared for, their way into government. No plans, no fallbacks, no cohesion, no guiding principles. Just dishonest attacks on the previous government then, and panic now.

It was all so easy when the Tories tripped up and misbehaved. But that’s no substitute for the then opposition getting ready for government, including anticipating reaction to events, whether they’re foreseeable or not (nearly all were completely foreseeable).

What an absolute bunch of clowns Labour is. 🤡

twistyizzy · 25/09/2025 16:33

DenizenOfAisleOfShame · 25/09/2025 16:32

It’s an interesting and horrifying dynamic at the moment. The government should be about ten years away from desperate fag packet policy measures, leadership challenges and an exodus of staff. That’s what happens in the dying embers of a tired, clapped-out party in power for a long time.

But after 14 months we’re here.

I am convinced this is the product of Labour being self-righteous liars who schemed, rather than thought and prepared for, their way into government. No plans, no fallbacks, no cohesion, no guiding principles. Just dishonest attacks on the previous government then, and panic now.

It was all so easy when the Tories tripped up and misbehaved. But that’s no substitute for the then opposition getting ready for government, including anticipating reaction to events, whether they’re foreseeable or not (nearly all were completely foreseeable).

What an absolute bunch of clowns Labour is. 🤡

🎯

EasternStandard · 25/09/2025 16:41

DenizenOfAisleOfShame · 25/09/2025 16:32

It’s an interesting and horrifying dynamic at the moment. The government should be about ten years away from desperate fag packet policy measures, leadership challenges and an exodus of staff. That’s what happens in the dying embers of a tired, clapped-out party in power for a long time.

But after 14 months we’re here.

I am convinced this is the product of Labour being self-righteous liars who schemed, rather than thought and prepared for, their way into government. No plans, no fallbacks, no cohesion, no guiding principles. Just dishonest attacks on the previous government then, and panic now.

It was all so easy when the Tories tripped up and misbehaved. But that’s no substitute for the then opposition getting ready for government, including anticipating reaction to events, whether they’re foreseeable or not (nearly all were completely foreseeable).

What an absolute bunch of clowns Labour is. 🤡

Yep and 14 years is a long time for any party, so a change for the right reasons isn’t too bad. But this?

Even with the huge pressure on here that Labour would be great I could see the sentiment, policies and people were going to be like this. It’s not surprising but it is still bad to deal with.

upseedaisee · 25/09/2025 16:43

Absentosaur · 25/09/2025 16:08

Edited

Bloody hell. This just won't work to control illegal migration because we know who they are as they come ove in boats!
I said on the previous thread what I thought of digital ID. The fact it has been raised by Labour Together is horrifying enough.