Labour isn't working - Thread 9

[TheNuthatch]

A chat thread for those who don't like this Labour government.

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

Previous thread
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5407977-labour-isnt-working-thread-8?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

There's a different voice from the resolution foundation that seems more sensible.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/0880f4451d6623d0

Didn't Blair want to bring ID cards in? What was the rationale behind them back them?

There’s a thing about Tulip Siddiq in the Times - she is on trial in absentia in Bangladesh because she is accused of having influenced her aunt to secure plots of land for family members. It also says that she had a Bangladeshi passport and identity card, despite her claiming she didn’t.

Do you think someone is dripping this stuff to the press or have they given it all at once and the press are releasing it in dribs and drabs?

Combination of dripping leaks plus a press who have smelled blood so will be actively seeking leaks??

I can't remember @Lutonsgirl . He was pushing before 9/11 but tried to convince people through the counter-terrorism angle after that.

Interesting fact about gvt issued mandatory ID cards… It is especially English-speaking countries such as Australia, Canada, Ireland, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, and the United States - where they don’t exist.

I note that these are also countries who don’t have land borders with others (obv Ca/USA).

Not sure whether I think they’re a good idea or not. Never thought about it. What’s the harm?

I wonder if, at the heart, there was pressure to integrate better as a European country and so pressure to behave more like European country?

Presumably the evidence is being reported as it’s presented in court. I haven’t read any reports about this but I’d expect the reports are written more or less as things are happening.

I doubt the papers are paying for reporters to be in court every day in Bangladesh. But there’ll be stringers for the big news agencies. And the local press of course.

I knew this trial would be big stuff for Siddiq and Labour - and Starmer. Remember that that part of the case against Siddiq is being tried in her absence (others are being tried). I don’t understand why she is absent, but it would seem most likely that she’s refused to turn up, probably because she doesn’t recognise the jurisdiction of the court. Which, if that’s right, would be an odd objection from someone with such close ties to Bangladesh, with or without a passport or ID card.

Do you think they heard me?🤣🤣

Afternoon all 😁

Sorry @CaveMum, I'm anti ID too I'm afraid. It wouldn't stop illegal working. If I wanted to employ someone illegally, I could a) pay them cash and pretend I'd never met them, or b) turn a blind eye to them working under someone else's ID/NI number. None of that would change with the introduction of digital ID. Tony Blair wanted them as he fancied himself as a future EU President.

I like to think this is Sir Clive giving Torsten Bell a Paddington stare as he prepares to write the budget.

Never thought about it. What’s the harm?

That asking people to do the unnecessary to prove that they are a good egg is asking them to show compliance for sport.

So, and a it creeps me out to use Foucault to make a point but he has good points to make, it's a mechanism by which we are creating a social panopticon where the assumption that we are being monitored - or always potentially monitored and how that changes who we are and our place in the world.

😁

We’re already there online though. We’re always being either monitored or potentially monitored…one of the critical ways we misjudged the internet revolution.

We have the worst of both at the moment where your online identity can be easily stolen, and we’ve allowed firms to make policies that encroach on your personal life. Not a pro ID card argument - just that the online issues are legion.

Yes, I agree, that's true. But that's a shift from being subject to the data sets of companies and, I suppose now, social media sites. But this would be a mandatory and legally demanded subjectivity under law.

I think it's a bad direction. Especially when we already have police turning up on doorsteps for non-crimes, for saying the wrong thing in the wrong place in a manner which is not illegal at all.

Agree @Upstartled - they would never get ID through without reforms to privacy, I hope!

Yes - definitely a cart before horse argument. Show me you can shore up the right to a private life first, which we’ve substantially lost, and that you can limit and use power for legitimate reasons only…

I’m ok with that contract with private companies. Say I go to the shops and see an advert for a product I buy, I’m aware of it and it’s not onerous. I’m much more concerned about the gov having powers linked to digital ID

I fear they’ll use illegal immigration as a way to sell it in when it won’t do much there but really will get us in a more controllable place.

The list below of where doesn’t have it is the one thing that makes me feel better as it’s an option. I realise I really don’t want it coming in, especially not with Starmer.

I really don’t want it coming in, especially not with Starmer

And there's always another Starmer around the corner, or a Farage - if that's something people find more troubling. These are the kind of powers that aren't rescinded. You have to be comfortable handing them to whoever ends up in government.

Yes my concerns are more around social media and the company you work for - I’m shocked that a coworker can friend you on a non work platform and then get you disciplined for non work related views that upset them. The cases in the papers have been shocking.

Covid definitely showed how fast governments can overreach.

‘And there's always another Starmer around the corner’

A potential gaggle of Starmers! Horrifying thought..

This. We were discussing this last night. It may be quite innocuous to have for instance ID cards for citizens to confirm who they are, however it may be that it's not the government bringing it in that we need to worry about, it's next government or the government after that or that. Once there is a semblance of control, someone could exploit it.