Fuck OFF Elon Musk

[noblegiraffe]

Elon Musk appeared via video link today at Tommy Robinson's Racist March wittering on about woke mind viruses and calling for the dissolution of parliament.

All I really want to say is FUCK OFF ELON MUSK.

Lucky for me my family aren’t racists either. What about yours? I’m going to go with yes. You haven’t mentioned what part of the UK you travelled in from? Was it the fun day out you’d hoped? Given the messages of hatred and bigotry you’re clearly a fan of, it doesn’t surprise me that we don’t have any common ground for conversation.

Elon Musk is a fucking tool.

Yes a police officer was hospitalised after being hit with sledge hammer by Palestine Action:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0mnnje4wlro.amp

Political arguments aside the history of housing (and sanitation) in Victorian times and the debates around it is really interesting. It's the same arguments about the role of free enterprise V government you get now but different. You had housing reformers like James hole https://seegala.com/solving-the-victorian-housing-crisis/, statisticians, religious groups, writers (Dickens) and far left radicals like Engels discussing the problem of housing. Even Prince Albert. They were not halcyon days when the free market provided for all.

Which is despicable. They should go to prison. But to me, if someone at yesterday's march had attacked a police officer I would want them punished. I don't think it would be fair to criminalise anyone holding up a "Unite the Kingdom" sign who hadn't committed any violence because of this. It would be completely counterproductive and wrong, even if I disagree with them. Its the same for other groups.

Whereas Elon Musk can call on people to "fight back" and say "civil war is inevitable". I don't think he should be classified as a terrorist either. But he deserves condemnation because it's a clear call to violence/disorder. It's not ok to try to start riots. It should be legal to speak out against immigration/against the right/against the left/whoever even if some people interpret that as creating a "climate" where disorder takes place. But Elon Musk tramples over that line repeatedly and gets away with it because he's rich.

Musk is branching out to Ireland too by offering Conor McGregor financial backing for presidential bid.

(Irish laws will prevent this)

@Namitynamename do you think people should be allowed to hold up banners saying "I support Hamas" or "I support Al-Qaeda"?

Just face it, the vast majority of the whole United Kingdom was supportive of yesterday's march. All those thousands of people crammed all over London was a sight to see, and no one gives a toss about your know it all attitude.

And you can back up your assumptions?

It was mostly white men there, are they now the majority?

You know, there's this tactic in persuading people to do things where you say things like "great, most of you have done your homework, just a few left so make sure you hand it in'. Or 'a lot of your neighbours have already signed up to solar panels today, are you interested?'

It's about making people feel like they're part of the out group if they don't fall in line with whatever you're saying.

You keep doing it. You keep making out that support for known racist grifter Tommy Robinson is in the majority and dissenters are the minority, when actually he has a long history of being a rabble-rousing racist wanker that a lot of people are fully aware of and not impressed by

Racists are the out group, not the in group.

I don't actually. I think it is right to consider Hamas/Al Qaida a terrorist group. There are also far right groups classed as terrorism. Terrorism is a real thing. But the meaning has shifted a lot. I think it should be much more than just any group/organisation doing criminal or violent things. That's too wide. If you push too far with the definitions then you end up watering it down so much that people lose faith in the classification.

I think the creep started with the terrorism act in 2000 which broadened the definition. It got worse (understandably) during the war on terror. And I think people on the left overreached with their "stochastic terrorism" arguments. (The logic that says JK Rowling/Gunner have "transchildrens blood on their hands".) And then the right wing took that argument and ran with it. But you just end up with different groups of people who want free speech for themselves, and view others speech as inherently violent. Its not compatible with healthy society.

I don't think Elon Musk or Lucy Connelly should be considered terrorists either by the way. I do think they both went over the line that incited violence though. (Whereas if you said you supported Lucy Connelly/Elon Musk it would not be inciting violence. Even if I disagreed). Freeze peach.

There are already laws against criminal damage, against inciting criminal damage, against inciting violence. Sometimes used excessively/in an unbalanced fashion. But terrorism carries a whole load of extra baggage and should be reserved for extreme cases.

Just compare the turnout of those FOR freedom of speech to the piddly amount of people in the counter protest group. There's no comparison. Face it.

@Namitynamename

It would be completely counterproductive and wrong, even if I disagree with them. Its the same for other groups.

Ah right so you didn't mean all other groups, there are some groups you agree should be proscribed as terrorist organisations and are merely quibbling over who falls under the definition.

Which is fine, Palestine Action have appealed and it is going to court to decide. It will be interesting to see the outcome.

But to say that Palestine Action have merely caused criminal damage is under-egging it I think. They had a training manual, training cells, advice on how not to get caught, a list of targets including further RAF bases. They certainly posed a threat to national security that I don't think people would brush off so easily if it were by a foreign group.

I don't need to 'make out' the support for yesterday's march. The facts speak for themselves. Just cast your eyes over the sheer numbers of people who descended onto London. Amazing.

I do wonder what the people who had turned up for a jolly freedom of speech family fun day thought when people started chanting 'we love Trump' and then the speeches started going on about how awful Islam is.

You said the majority of the country supported the march. I've cast my eye over the number of people on the march and it wasn't the majority of the country so I'm still baffled as to why you think you can assert this.

The speeches did not say how awful Islam is.

Obviously not everyone could attend, but everything you read, every video you see, people are supportive of the protest.

Yes. I'm not a free speech absolutist. At the end of the day I think if an organisation is as bad as Al Qaida/Hamas/Isis then it is absolutely necessary for the government to make that case really strongly. It can't just be "trust us we have intelligence". Or "they are planning to hurt National Security". Hurting national security can be an aggravating factor for criminal damage already I think.
The problem is none of us know who the next government will be or the one after that. How will they define threatening national security and therefore terrorism?

Oh mate, that's your algorithm.

Come on then, prove that most people were against yesterday's march.

You’re the one claiming that the majority of the country support it. Your evidence appears to be that everything you have read is people supporting it.

You appear to be ignoring a large number of Mumsnet posts you have read from people who very much do not support it so I’m not convinced I should take your word for anything…

Eric Zemmour saying we are being replaced by Muslim culture/Great Replacement theory?
https://x.com/babylone771/status/1966893072454963240?s=61&t=U9XrcF693-JpMxeIueYG7g

And of course the crowd chanting offensive slogans about Allah...

In short, you aren't able to put your money where your mouth is.
I don't need to provide evidence to back up what I'm saying, the fact that this was the biggest protest in British history says it all.

That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.