Thread 31 Starmer - September Rain

[DuncinToffee]

Pull up a chair for some friendly chit chat about politics and beyond

Taxes optional but greatly appreciated.

Previous thread
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5399546-thread-30-starmer-magic-roundabouts?page=40&reply=146834602

Meanwhile, I see conference season comes and Robert Jenrick is readying himself. The Overton window didn’t just move, it got smashed. The tacit assumptions that have supported liberal public policy over the last 30 years are breaking down.

Jenrick now objects to legal migration and talks about net emigration. It’s clear where we will be heading next.

I love wearing lots of colour and purple is my favourite. I don't sew, but DD scours vinted for me for bargains. I am both tall and plus size, but she gets me some great stuff.

Yes he's outflanking Farage and taking his cues from the Facebook comments section.

Amol Rajan on R4 Today on the Rayner stuff just said "she's fought hard to maintain her family's privacy including..." And then went on to detail the disabilities of her child. Isn't that invading his privacy?

It could mean she has written, incorrect advice from an appropriate professional and so it's clear cut. We won't know until a judgement is given.

Jenrick is copying Lowe.
There is a place for Lowe in Jenrick's Tories.

I wonder if his supporters think that a sustained period of net emigration will - in the words of Cher - turn back time. They will be 25 again and the world will be their oyster. Girls will be girls and women will be girls. None of this equality/inclusivity/diversity nonsense.

What is the economic argument for net emigration?

I rather thought it was accepted that would mean GDP falls.
But then the Tories have embraced falling GDP over the last decade.

In her position and given the history, top advice should have been sought first, not after the fact.

Also, Labour need to be all over these sorts of transactions, to avoid this sort of thing, they appear to have learnt nothing.

Massive own goal.

More news about AR overnight and that she used some of the money from her DC to buy the house. Not sure of details but I feel for her because it feels like a witch hunt

That may well be a twisting of the facts? In that the trust bought AR's share of the house, which technically would be the son's money?

I don't know.

I agree with this.

I have some sympathy for Rayner - if her version is correct. She was going through a messy divorce with the pressure of a national job and a disabled child to safeguard. Tax law is horribly complicated where trusts and minors are concerned, so I can see why she accepted the advice of the professional, thought "that was a relief," paid the amount and moved on.

It sounds like a cock-up, not a conspiracy.

It's also depressing that everyone is now on the bandwagon, immigration = bad. A better message is "badly managed immigration = bad," but that would mean accepting that Governments of both colours have fucked up the issue. Right now, the current climate demonises anyone who looks different, regardless of when or how they came here.

It's so stupidly regressive. We've always had a flow of people into this country. Accepting the best and brightest applicants should be a point of pride, not a stick for the far right.

I hope it was a cock up @TheABC , but her position is untenable IMHO.

If the standards committee find she has done nothing wrong and her story is true, we will have all the two tier shite again. It will follow her around for ever. The media will continue to hound her.

Maybe she would be better on the backbenches. She'd be a powerful force.

I can't help feeling that she should stand down now. Then do a Tory style comeback in about about a year to a different senior role at the next cabinet shuffle.

This - @PandoraSocks

Its "politicians are all the same" & feeds into "Reform will be different" nonsense.

However, the damage is already done, whether she goes or stays now, she'll be forever associated with tax avoidance, fair or not, same as the scum remark has followed her.

Very disappointing.

Or as leader. That would rid the world of the right-wingers as their heads would explode 😅

Not on the BBC

The two tier shit is the hounding of AR, even we on this thread are buying into the narrative that she can't make mistakes.

it feels like another step back for women.

Completely agree with that @DuncinToffee. And I’m not buying it.

Agree to a certain extent. What is clear to the Government and especially to Rayner, is that everything she does is scrutinised to the nth degree. So the cries of hypocrisy and she thought she'd get away with it simply doesn't wash.

Therefore I believe that she made a genuine mistake based on advice given. Free link taken from a post on x. Paul Lewis.

"I’m a tax expert, and even I didn’t know about the rule Rayner broke."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/e67d46af30ddeee5

Is it just me, or are pensions suddenly a thing ? A few threads popping up of late.

Looks like there is some attempt to lay the ground for the "state pension is not a benefit" lack of understanding in the community. Now who would benefit from that ? A party that needs old people to vote to slash benefits, maybe ?

So far it's not going well. It seems pensioners are possibly much more alert to things that affect them directly than they are to things that affect younger people.

Or am I just too darn cynical ?

not on the BBC (or Guardian, Sky) either

Reform have an anti-vaccine conspiracy group hosting a panel on their conference

BBC reports she had advice from an experienced conveyancer and two experts in trust laws.

@DuncinToffee but the sad fact is that Rayner and Labour as a whole can't afford to make the sort of mistakes or "errors of judgement" that the Tories did and got away with.

Just look at what the we hate Labour thread is saying about Rayner(and us, btw. We are all awful, apparently) and the Rayner must go thread. It is absolutely vicious.

Labour has to hold itself to much higher standards. Any prominent Labour politician needs to check every financial transaction from every angle. Unfair, but that is the way it is.

I saw a suggestion that Trump could reverse ferret on his "antivax" stance in order to stop the US pharmaceutical industry going down the drain.

I have visions of Reform standing there going "Where did he go ?" as Trump declares that (his) vaccines are the best in the world and saved millions of lives etc

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/5482482-trump-vaccine-policy-qandary/

Absolutely. My take has always been that everyone makes mistakes and the real test of character is how you deal with the consequences. Personally I think Rayner’s response has been exactly what I’d hope for.

I remember once someone tried to start a 'too left wing for Labour' support thread and it got totally and utterly hijacked by people to the right of Labour and, also, by rather patronising centrists. I thought that was a shame because, as Polanski has argued, the left and often made invisible- partly, but not entirely, self inflicted.

Definitely 'liberal' and 'left' are used in a more American way on MN now.

I disagree Pandora, yes Labour has to hold itself to much higher standards (although those standards should be that high across all political parties, especially since Johnson) but Rayner has to hold herself to impossible high standards.

Misogyny and snobbism

As for the other thread, I don't give a shiny fuck about them