Lucy Letby - have you changed your mind thread 4

[MistressoftheDarkSide]

With thanks to the original poster @kittybythelighthouse and @Tidalwave for continuing the discussion.

No idea why the tagging isn't in bold but hopefully everyone will find their way!

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5394916-lucy-letby-have-you-changed-your-mind-thread-3?

Previous thread 😊

Already?

I think you have to already be in the thread maybe? Anyway, we found it ☺️

Just in case the other one filled up fast - sorry if I've jumped the gun....

What has led you to belueve is insinuating a set up?

@Typicalwave What else could it be? Oh they couldn't find anything else on her so claimed she spiked a bag? Why would they go to all that trouble if not to set her up? OR it actually is what happened? Which you refuse to believe. So it can only be the first option?

would you mind answering my questions from earlier today whrn you have a sec
sure if you remind me what it was since there's been a lot of posts

Let me ask you this: what evidence links the insulin cases to Letby?

It was a jovial observation 😃

Why would who go to all what trouble?

Im not following you here.

You assumed @Kittybythelighthousewas trying to say someone set LL up?

What makes you think that’s what she was insinuating?

Overall or what the doctors knew about at the time? She was there when the first bag was hung, she had ample time and opportunity to spike the bags. One of the insulin poisonings happened right after her colleague had said "you need a break from it always being on your shift". The insulin babies twin died of something completely different when Lucy was on shift (two separate cases) She kept asking about babies blood sugar levels long after she'd left work. She asked the police if they had the bag. The unit went through 6 vials of insulin which was double the year before. I think that about covers it.

Nope. Mind not changed

And I don’t believe it because it’s completely implausible. I’ve already commented on it and listed all the ways it’s implausible, but I think I’ve left one out: when hanging TPN bags there will be an aseptic procedure to follow. Part of that procedure will be THOROUGHLY checking the bag for leaks. Given the fact that COCH TPN bags were heat sealed in an outer protective bag, if someone had gone in through the bag with a needle or through the giving port with a needle, leaking liquid from the puncture in the bag would have collected inside of the protective heat sealed outer bag.

How do you explain the second bag?
How do yoy explain the tamper proof ports?
Just checking - which twin are you referring to and you’re saying both died, ig two different things? Or not? Cant quite tell
Therd YIU go again assuming motive on a pretty innocuous question - why do you do that? Why do you think about what YOU would do or say and then decide if what you would say or do isn’t what Letby said or did, then she MUST be guilty? Do you think everyone should think, feel abx respond the way you do? Because you’re displaying somd hefty confirmation bias here.

If one baby dies and it look suspicious, why didn’t they do something about it. Why did so many babies have to die? Sometimes doctors do let things go on because they don’t wNt to challenge the status quo. For this alone those doctors should also be held responsible.

And 6 vials of insulin isn’t missing unaccounted for insulin is it? They went through 3 the year before iirc - according to the manufacturer Actrapid (which is what was on the unit) comes in 10ml vials. Theres 1000 units per vial of Actrapid. So an addition 3000 units were ordered. That’s a lot of insulin for two babies and both survived.

These are the sort of details that need to be nailed down as accurately as possible., and haven't been.

The doctors/experts. How is it not an insinuation of a set-up if spiking a TPN bag is apparently totally implausible. Especially if you're claiming nothing even links Lucy to it because she "wasn't on shift"-why do you think they said she did this if it wasn't true? Just for fun?!

Why didn't the defence show it's impossible to tamper with a TPN bag? Did they just drop the ball again?

You could equally ask why the prosecution didn't show it WAS possible.

That isn’t an insinuation.

An expert witness decided that it was insulin poisoning, they had to come up with a theory on how it was done. They can’t say ‘cause we think so so that is that’ That’s not a ‘set-up’ - when there’s little but circumstantial evidence they have to try to offer up some sort of suggestion as to how it happened.

How did the prosecution link it to LL?
There is no evidence that it even happened this way. It is all theory and supposition.

The devil is in the detail. They dudng show it because if wasn't possible. All the needed to do was cast enoygh doubt in the jury’s mind.

Frankly this little bit of court showmanship , of sleight of hand (including claiming babies as small as 800g born at 30 weeks due to IUGR due to placental insufficiency were ‘born well and in good condition) is akin to OJ and his ill fitting glove.

How do you explain the second bag?
How do yoy explain the tamper proof ports?

They don't have the bags so it's impossible to know if she managed to tamper with them or not. I's plausible no one noticed or went looking for puncture marks. I trust her defence team looked into all this very thoroughly but once again the silence was deafening! As to your earlier point about how she held up in police interview-she was calm and collected. Coming up with the possibility one of her colleagues was the poisoner instead of her was probably normal and convincing in her head.

Just checking - which twin are you referring to and you’re saying both died, ig two different things? Or not? Cant quite tell

Twin E died and then twin F was poisoned with insulin and survived. Twin L was poisoned with insulin then twin M collapsed with suspected air embolism. I thought twin M died as well but that was not the case upon checking. Came very close though.

Therd YIU go again assuming motive on a pretty innocuous question - why do you do that? Why do you think about what YOU would do or say and then decide if what you would say or do isn’t what Letby said or did, then she MUST be guilty? Do you think everyone should think, feel abx respond the way you do? Because you’re displaying somd hefty confirmation bias here.

Don't even know what you mean here? Because the insulin happened after her friends text about her needing a break? Why is it crazy to try and figure out a serial killers motive?! I didn't even say anything about what I would do?

They don't need to? It's up to the defence to rebut the allegation surely.

I can tell you how - or at least Dewi Evan’s account of how. He recounts it in several interviews.

The police brought the two cases to him later on in 2018 and he pounced on it ‘look, you’ve got your smoking gun!’ I paraphrase but he said a version of this each time I’ve read his account of it.

It didn’t matter that Letby wasn't present for Baby F’s second unplanned and unexpected bag plucked by another nurse from the generic TPN stores.

It doesn’t matter that the bags are tamper proof

It doesn’t matter tgat the bags are thoroughly checked for leaks as part of aseptic hanging procedure.

Dewi had his smoking gun.

Oh dear.

Who’s going to explain how burden of proof works?