Should men be allowed on post-natal wards?

[Kibble19]

This is off the back of another thread from a woman who is very concerned about the presence of unknown men on the post-natal ward at hospital.

I had my child during the pandemic so have no experience of normal practices in post-natal wards, and I appreciate they may vary from Trust to Trust.

When I had my baby, I was on the post-natal ward for several days (PPH, sepsis pathway joy). There were three visiting times each day, one hour each. Partners had to call the ward the day before to book their slot the next day, for social distancing purposes. I had no choice but to just manage on my own, as did the other women there.

Should we have a system like that (minus the need to book your visit) instead of the very wide open hours that many hospitals seem to have? Specific hours for visiting (with all visitors gone by, say, 7pm) only? No men or family members overnight?

1 in 4 women in England & Wales has suffered domestic abuse, so there must be many women who are anxious about the presence of men when they’ve had their baby.

When I had my first dc, my dh certainly couldn’t have stayed overnight! That was only 15 years ago. They kicked visitors out around 8pm so mums could wash, change, feed and start to settle.

And in the daytime no visitors in the early morning as far as I recall. We had curtains and were encouraged to use them when we had visitors.

Yes, no question.

I hate this slow, insidious vibe that exists now that men are all sexual predators, or that women feel uncomfortable. Tough. I’d have hated for my husband not to come to see me.

As a father, any hospital that prevents me from seeing my DC for whatever reason will be hearing from my solicitors.

YABVVU.

I don’t agree with allowing men (or anyone other than the new mother!) to stay overnight - more from a practical POV than anything - but I don’t think excluding new fathers during the day is right.

we can’t with one hand say we want men to be hands on and involved and with the other push them away from being involved from day one!

In theory I'd like it to be just women and babies on the postnatal ward and all visitors sent home overnight, nobody wants somebody else's partner taking up space and creating extra noise. In reality the standard of nursing care is often piss poor, the woman in the bed across from me was in agony after a c section and really struggling to lift her baby, and the midwife on duty was very dismissive, basically told her to stop making a fuss and that the drug trolley would be round with painkillers soon. If fathers aren't allowed to stay and help then they need more staff to fill the shortfall but with the state of NHS funding these days it seems unlikely.

I had my DD last spring, DH could have stayed if he wanted but I sent him home as I didn’t feel the need for us both to be there all night, I liked to have the option as I know if I was of had to have a c section I would have needed the help

I'm a lesbian, but on the ward I was on (about 4 nights), partners were allowed to stay all the time and sleep in chairs. I'd had a section and was weak from a haemorrhage and simply couldn't have managed overnight without my wife.

It's hard, because I think it's very unreasonable to expect a woman who has likely just been awake for a couple of days, is recovering from birth and potential birth injuries, or major surgery, to cope alone on a ward. Because let's be real, the midwives don't help much with the baby once it's born.

If partners aren't going to be allowed to stay over, we need to up the level of care and have dedicated people who can support with looking after baby overnight.

In all honesty, the expectation for mothers to get on with everything a day after labour with no time to rest and recover is a prime example of patriarchy imo.

Yes, men should be allowed on post-natal wards. The baby is theirs as much as it is the mother’s.

And it’s the mother who has just gone through a traumatic experience, blood loss, stitches, hours and hour of pain. To say to the father’s “Off you go home for a nap” leaving the mothers to cope with a newborn by themselves when all they want to do is sleep and try to come to terms with the shit-show that is birth is a horrible idea.

I had my first baby towards the end of Covid, no men allowed on the ward overnight. My second was when the world was back to normal and my partner could stay 24 hours. Guess which birth gave me PPD? Hallucinations from sleep deprivation? Not the one when I was able to be supported by my other half, the baby’s father.

Women should have private rooms like they do in other countries. Ridiculous that the reason given for a ward is oversight but there are no staff to oversee.

DH was invaluable post C section with DS2. Cannot imagine him not being there. He was quiet and respectful, as were all the other fathers. If he wasn’t there I wouldn’t have been able to feed our baby because there were no staff to help me lift him. I also wouldn’t have had any pain relief.
The father in the bay adjacent to us asked a favour to borrow a nappy to change their baby since they had run out.
I understand what you’re saying but it would be throwing the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak, to ban all men from post natal wards

Of course the baby's father should be allowed to visit (in the absence of a reason to expect abuse). It's reasonable to expect them to leave overnight but other than that they absolutely should be able to visit the ward.

We should do away with wards altogether and have small single rooms, with a chair for partner if they wish to stay. On all wards, but most especially on children’s and maternity.
I would have needed a hell of a lot more assistance from hospital staff if my partner hadn’t been with me during labour and after the births. So it makes sense to allow partners. But equally we should not be expected to sleep on a communal ward with men etc when we’re vulnerable.
I knew a lady who was surprised because her husband who had been wearing a nightdress on a maternity ward was asked to dress appropriately.

It also depends on what time you give birth. My sister gave birth then was placed on a ward where fathers weren't allowed overnight

Because of the need for turn around of delivery suites, her partner left her less than an hour and a half after her baby was born. People were labouring in wards so they needed the room, but visiting hours were almost 8 hours away.

People are often rushed out of delivery suites , so should you have the poor luck of giving birth in a busy time, outside of visiting hours you may find partners ushered away the second you can physically be moved out of the room once your placenta is out.

That certainly seemed wild.
Not having men in the ward overnight, assumes they might be able to spend more time in delivery suites together

Yes. At least until the wards have enough staff to attend to the individual needs of every mother and newborn.

Absolutely men should be allowed on post natal wards

Fair enough to argue that they shouldn’t stay overnight (it’s not my personal view but I can certainly understand it), but it’s ridiculous to say they shouldn’t be there in the day.

I’ve told this story on MN before but when I was in with DD2, there was a woman who’d had a c section but had reacted badly or something. She kept coming over very weak and dizzy, and kept vomiting. They told her partner not to let her hold the baby without him there because there was a risk of her dropping them. Then about half an hour later visiting ended and they sent him home, leaving a woman they had just said couldn’t hold the baby alone to look after it. She couldn’t pick up the baby herself, she couldn’t move to get a bowl so repeatedly vomited down herself. It was horrendous. She was beside herself. I wanted to help but I’d had a PPH so could barely stand (couldn’t get to the loo without almost passing out so also didn’t appreciate my DH being sent home and being left with midwives who clearly thought I needed to get a grip).

I've had one baby where men weren't allowed on the ward overnight and one where they were. I think it's tricky either way - without my husband I was buzzing the button all the time for help so from a staffing POV it would have probably been better if he was there. The one where men were allowed was bloody awful for other reasons - men face timing family in the night, getting told off for trying to share beds with new mothers, bringing in smelly takeaways at 3 am, generally being loud. Tbh all of those negative things could (and probably are!) have been done by women too so I suppose there's no way of knowing 🤷

Tldr pros and cons to both, on the whole my preference would be for women to have a choice of a single sex ward overnight i.e. no male visitors but beggars cant be choosers when it comes to the NHS post natal ward!

That being said as a NICU mum one of the worst things about my experience was being on a ward surrounded by other women who's babies weren't rushed off and were there with them. I'd change that first.

I was much more comfortable with my second baby that men had to go by 8pm despite having had a c section at 3pm. With my first the men just seemed to snore and make a lot of noise rather than be that helpful over night from what I could make out

Of course men should be allowed! I needed to stay in 2 nights with each of mine. With my eldest Dad's could visit between 9am and 9pm and this felt like a fair balance. With my second (covid time) Dad's could visit for 1 hour if they were sure you wouldn't be discharged that day. So most women weren't allowed to book a slot at all. It felt like a prison. Mothers really need that support that the NHS can no longer offer IMO.

Couldn’t disagree with you more. We have a one year old & currently pregnant with our second, my husband was there throughout with our first and will be again with our second. After a horrific birth, huge pph, infection, he was completely invaluable to me and frankly at least in my experience the wards really don’t have adequate staff to be preventing partners from staying.

Wind your neck in, I was just asking the question to the room, so to speak.

You do all realise that babies can be born outside of standard visiting hours? My DC was born in the small hours of the morning and thankfully DP was allowed onto the ward with us, I can assure you he couldn’t have given a shit who was in the beds around us, curtains were drawn and we were very much focused on our newborn and getting some sleep after a long and difficult labour

I had this with my second. I gave birth late at night outside visiting hours and the post natal ward was so full the only bed they had for me was in triage but because it was outside visiting hours my husband was asked to leave an hour and a half after my son was born. Being a second time Mum and having had a straight forward delivery I was happy to be left but after my first I very much needed his support and he stayed with me for the entirety of my three day stay.

I also think that midwives are so rushed off their feet that they aren't able to do basic things like help a woman get to the toilet or lift baby if she is unable to so having a partner there to help with these things is necessary

My DH wasn't allowed to stay overnight and it was absolutely awful for me.

I gave birth and was sent to the ward alone with my new baby. I was blindsided and terrified.

There were three visiting times each day, one hour each. Partners had to call the ward the day before to book their slot the next day, for social distancing purposes

This sounds blissful. Partners are not patients and should not be allowed to stay. The absolute worst part of being in hospital with both my DC was the sheer number of people on the ward. Noisy, thoughtless, intrusive. I'd happily forgo any visits from my own partner to get peace and privacy.