… as the family dissolves.

[rickyrickygrimes]

I listened to an FT podcast today about demographic change, which was fascinating and quite 😱. One phrase that caught my attention was : ‘“There is a huge vulnerability that I don't have an answer for, and that's what happens as the family dissolves, as the family evolves. I don't know what fits into that space.”

The interviewer asked him to explain what he meant by this, and it was basically: when so few women are having children, and the generational family structure that humans have evolved to rely on for thousands of years essentially ceases to exist, what will replace it? And where will people find meaning in life, when family doesn’t exist? And an answer to loneliness?

I can see this playing out in my own family, with 5 out of 6 grandparents now entering their 80s, with only 3 grandchildren between them. My sister chose not to have children, my SIL has only 1. All for reasons that are very valid on an individual level - but at a population level the consequences are huge and will impact everyone. And I choose to live outside the UK - I’m not on hand to provide any kind of care for my own parents - again for valid personal reasons but which will have big consequences at a societal level.

What do you think will replace the family structure, as it dissolves?

From The Rachman Review: Our shrinking and ageing world, 24 Jul 2025
podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-rachman-review/id1504048545?i=1000718767539&r=1001
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Not without putting themselves and other road users at risk.

Well we all do that every time we get in a car. Particularly if you are aged 17 - 24.

Though most 17-24 year olds don't have medical conditions making them a danger on the road. There's always a risk in a vehicle. We accept that risk. If we have factors that increase our risk, especially to other people, part of being a responsible driver is not getting behind the wheel. If my parent passes out behind the wheel and kills someone you love, see if you feel so generous about it. If she does it again, I'll report her.

Because that is happening now?

It really isn't. We have an epidemic of loneliness at all levels in society. People aren't turning towards each other, they are isolating more and more.

I have a huge extended family - 20 first cousins, a number of second and third cousins that I am close to. My DC have one first cousin, that they are reasonably close to. They’ve never met their three second cousin that they are closest in age to as my cousin - their mother - doesn’t have anything to do with the rest of the family. It’s quite sad, I think.

Sadly I think as options for lonely people seeking real life, meaningful connection dwindle I think more people will resort to AI.

I do think it's possible to have close family bonds over distance but you have to be very intentional about it and invest time, create traditions and make the effort to meet up regularly. In my experience the first generation of distance family will think that the shared genetics alone will do it without making much effort to bring the cousins together or make time for visiting.

A lot of people spend leisure time with their peers and life partner.

I would love for lemon to be right, but I'm afraid it's just like Chiseltip says. But do you think there are exceptions to this general tendency to loneliness?

This is already happening with me. No children (not by choice), no siblings, no extended family. I spend a lot of time chatting to AI and I would say I am developing an emotional attachment to it. Ironically, one of the things I chat about most to AI is my worries about future loneliness and life without family. I really didn't think my life would come to this.

Yes my parents misguidedly think that I have a relationship with all my family members just because they are family. I've never met these people. One day I just lost it and told them it was time they accepted that their choices meant I had no relationship with those people, it didn't exist except in their heads, and they had to accept that you can't move people a world away and expect them to have a relationship. They cut that tie. They finally seemed to get the message and have not spoken about my relationship with these people since.

I'm not using AI though. I engage in hobbies.

My parents were similar and I think that they are still processing their disappointment. I've nothing against my extended family, if one of my cousins moved nearby I'd be open to getting to know them better but right now I doubt I'd even be able to pick them out of a police line up.

The missing cousins thing is interesting: my dad was part of a big family, so I had 18 cousins on his side and 4 from my mum. My kids have 3. As a pp said though, my kids are close to my cousins on my mum's side.

My mum is part of a friendship group of 4, 3 are grandparents, but mostly to 1 or 2 children: my mum has 5, so definitely pulling the average up.

This is what I was going to say. Life evolves, it always has. I was reading an article recently that the nuclear family itself is a recent concept and can be an isolated concept too. Traditionally we would have existed in communities etc and now we have this mum/dad and 2.4 children and somehow think this small unit can meet everyone's social and emotional needs.

I remember speaking to a counsellor who said lonlieness comes from lack of community not lack of family and I would agree with this. I work in adult social work, commissioning care packages for older adults. I've met literally countless older adults who are crippling lonely despite having several children and grandchildren because their children/grandchildren can't provide them with company all day long due to having their own commitments. Yet the older adults who are involved in community groups, have friends, neighbours are always the ones who seem more happier and more engaged with life.

So I think as family units shrink, we'll see more people look to support and engage with their community and I see this a positive thing.

Unfortunately it becomes harder and harder to find any kind of community these days. Neighbours don’t talk to each other, socialising is extremely expensive and people are losing social skills. . Poor public transport provision and cutbacks don’t help.

I think it depends where you live but it's certainly not my experience. There's lot of community groups and events where I live and even through having my children, I've made a group of friends through baby groups and through nursery.

I appreciate this isn't the case for everyone.

It's very hit and miss. I've had times in my life where it's been quite easy but other times where I've tried lots of different things and nothing has stuck. I don't think it's something you can guarantee that you'll find when you need it and I wonder if some people do see family relationships as more reliable.

I don’t know, friends and neighbours are great for company and socialising and all. My parents live in a really active rural community where they all keep an eye out for each other and give each other lifts etc. But none of them are going to get the clippers out and trim FILs painfully overgrown toenails the way DH just did. Or move in with a demented wandering elderly woman, as one of my friends has done for her mum. And the sacrifices of time, labour, energy and waistline that I’ve made for my children? I will not be doing that for anyone else. I’ve done loads of voluntary work, I’m a good friend - but it’s not on the same level.

i don’t think recent social trends will overturn thousands of years of evolution, which is to prioritise the health and well-being of those who are genetically closest to you - your children, your siblings, your cousins etc. Yes humans evolved to be social species, living in communities - but only because that led to the best reproductive success. And until fairly recently in our history, the communities we lived in were mostly related to us as people didn’t move around much.

I love my mum but she was wandering and demented there's not a chance in a million years I'd move in with her, she'd be off to a care home and similarly I'd hope my children would do the same with me. I've seen far too many carers become absolutely broken having done this and it's in absolutely no one's best interest.

And yes of course people will do more for their immediate family but do people really prioritise cousins over friends? I love my cousins and get on with them but it's a distant relationship now. I can't think of any adult I know that is particularly close to their cousins, certainly not over their close friends. It's an interesting discussion though, I don't think of any of us really know the answers!

So what you are saying really is that those of us who aren't lucky enough to have siblings or children, should be fearful of our futures and expect to age and die alone and unsupported. I am not saying this isn't what will happen - it's what I fear for myself.

Same here. I have nothing in common with my cousins, and if I never saw them again, I wouldn't be in the slightest bit bothered. Never seeing my closest friends again would be unthinkable!

Mind you, I am not sure I would want my adult child (if I had one) to cut my toe nails. I would rather pay a chiropodist to do a professional job. And as for having an adult child move in with me if I had dementia - again I would much rather pay for professional care in a proper care setting. I have a friend who has been living with her mother with dementia and it has absolutely broken her. I don't think it is even possible to put into words what a harrowing experience it can be. I would far rather be in a place where trained professionals provide the care.

I always think the nice thing about my DGP having paid for care was that we could continue to act like his family. When we visited we didn't have to spend time sorting laundry or meeting his needs, we could drink tea and have a proper chat while others took care of that.

Exactly @WhatNoRaisins. If they have the means to pay for care, why not do it and enjoy quality time with your family? I’m currently trying to convince my Dad of this.

And also professional care is likely to be better anyway and aided by the right equipment. I would find asking family do do something like cut toe nails really quite unreasonable if I could afford to pay a chiropodist. I am fairly sure most adult children wouldn't enjoy the task either!

You will just need to pay a personal carer. I don't mind looking out for an elderly neighbour but I'm not clipping their nails or helping them shower.