… as the family dissolves.

[rickyrickygrimes]

I listened to an FT podcast today about demographic change, which was fascinating and quite 😱. One phrase that caught my attention was : ‘“There is a huge vulnerability that I don't have an answer for, and that's what happens as the family dissolves, as the family evolves. I don't know what fits into that space.”

The interviewer asked him to explain what he meant by this, and it was basically: when so few women are having children, and the generational family structure that humans have evolved to rely on for thousands of years essentially ceases to exist, what will replace it? And where will people find meaning in life, when family doesn’t exist? And an answer to loneliness?

I can see this playing out in my own family, with 5 out of 6 grandparents now entering their 80s, with only 3 grandchildren between them. My sister chose not to have children, my SIL has only 1. All for reasons that are very valid on an individual level - but at a population level the consequences are huge and will impact everyone. And I choose to live outside the UK - I’m not on hand to provide any kind of care for my own parents - again for valid personal reasons but which will have big consequences at a societal level.

What do you think will replace the family structure, as it dissolves?

From The Rachman Review: Our shrinking and ageing world, 24 Jul 2025
podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-rachman-review/id1504048545?i=1000718767539&r=1001
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This ^
This is why the so many governments are so scared. Young women choosing not to have children and living their own lives clearly shows that the status quo is built on sand.
Without women willing to work for no pay (carers) or less pay than a man in the same role (gender pay gap), the system collapses.
It'll be interesting watching this play out.

It doesn't have to be either/or.

We fall into the category you describe, but when we are at home, we have our two-year-old granddaughter at least once a week. Also, we are there for any one of them should they need us. We also pay for an extended family holiday every year for all of them and their families. We make the offer, and they decide whether or not to come along. No pressure!!

Why shouldn't we enjoy our retirement? Why shouldn't we spend what we have earned and saved on 'frivolous items'? It annoys me when I see comments like this. Thankfully, none of our kids begrudge us spending our money as we see fit.

Both financially and practically, we provide any help needed. However, we are lucky that our children are all very successful young adults, married to other successful adults, and so none of them needs our financial help.

Going NC isn’t always about protecting MH. I have seen it cause huge pain in my family. I have also read threads from people on this site who wish to go NC simply because they don’t like their parents and have nothing in common with them. The worst ones (imho and it still shocks me) are those who state that they are VLC just for an inheritance.

@Ratisshortforratthew I agree that most people who go no contact do so for serious reasons. Sometimes people do change their minds, however. I’m currently witnessing a daughter (now 26) who went NC with her Mum at 19, rebuild their relationship. Her Mum is my friend and her eldest daughter went off the rails on her mid-teens dabbling with drugs and other behaviors that would’ve landed her with a criminal record. She was asked to leave her school (she blamed her Mum) and hated the drug treatment program and then the alternative education that her Mum arranged.

She’s doing well now and I think she’s now realizing that her Mum was doing her best for her in difficult circumstances. Basically, she’s matured.

This is our family. We've always had children later than average, fewer children, family have moved hundreds of miles away so there's just a tiny handful of us left. It already feels very isolating.

I was muttering to my sibling that our kids should have three each to bump numbers back up. It will be very lonely for them at this rate.

You are probably right, but when most of your peers are childless and you know your life would be much harder than theirs if you had a family . . . well I think it would be a pretty hard sell.
Social norms are a powerful force, the more it becomes the norm to be childless the more it becomes the norm to be childless!

Social norms are a powerful force, the more it becomes the norm to be childless the more it becomes the norm to be childless!

This is happening in South Korea

I think this might be a temporary blip

No country has reversed birth rates once they have fallen below replacement rate, I think something in society shifts

Once women see how much more freedom they have, what it's like to live your life for yourself, earning your own money, devoting your free time to your own interests, like men do.

In the UK it really feels like every man for themselves, that each individual should be able to live a life entirely free of obligations to others if that’s what they desire.

In my antenatal friend group, only one of us (the youngest) uses family for childcare during work. The rest of us prefer a mix of nursery and compressed or part-time hours. This is usually due to retired grandparents being unable or unwilling or inflexible or simply preferring to pay our money and take our choice. This doesn't preclude warm family relationships, but all of us vastly prefer to rely on each other for support than family.

It's simply easier, and we don't get criticised, guilted or patronised by each other as we frequently experience from our parents.

It's very much the reverse of isolationist. It's just not family we're relying on.

We also have all, so far, stuck to one child each. The majority of my friends had children earlier and all went for two under two.

I don’t believe they can.

i think the usual advice given is to leave a token amount to estranged children in the hope that this satisfies the law, and that they don’t contest it.

I think this too. In my social circle (mid 30s) we all have very similar situations and feelings on this. Our grandparents (mid 80s) helped our parents(mid 60s) to raise us, now we are raising our children but our parents are mostly away on cruises and checking off their 'bucket lists' like there's no tomorrow. We all feel strongly that we want to emulate our grandparents in our own retirement, not our parents. Although we'll probably be working much, much later into old age so there's that to factor in, sadly.

I see this amongst my peers as we are all peri or post menopause.
We are finally getting a semblance of our time back and have no fucks left to give.

White English. Not skin colour, but 'culture'. Most are very different with family compared to other cultures, that's just a fact. Eg kids in nursery at a young age, kids out of the house or at least paying their way as soon as they're 18, parents in a nursing home. Not close to siblings or inlaws, let alone wider family etc. Not all, but most in my experience.

I didn't have any grandparents growing up. There were some aunts and uncles but they didn’t do childcare, too far away and with their own families, it was just my mum and dad. My best friend was the same. I definitely intend on being as hands on a grandparent as I’m allowed to be if and when the time comes.

Some of this is cultural I think. It's normal in my family for gps to help, help gps etc

I agree. It seems to be very common for adult children in their twenties and thirties to decide to jettison their families because their parents don’t measure up in their view in some way, often following therapy. I’ve seen this in my own family and it’s caused terrible suffering. There is no tolerance or compassion ,
even for parents who have tried their absolute best.

This will be my parents. It is a consequence of choices they have made, however.

What sort of choices?

Yes I see it on here too. Children moving miles away from their families. No natural child care/babysitting by grandparents, aunts, cousins etc. No-one to help out if you’re ill or the child is ill. Not just due to reducing numbers of births, but a very individualistic approach to life. Very unsociable. Even small things like anecdotes of peoples lives not passed down the generations as there’s no-one to listen to it.

Moving to a remote area in another country to all other family members for one.

Refusing to consider moving closer to me so they will have care in old age. I don't think they should move closer to me if they don't want to, they have to live their own lives how they want it, it's not consequence free, however.

They say they have their local friends to help them. Their friends are all their age.

I actually don't think we will.

I think what's more likely is people retreat to an online world, live lonely lives and seek connection virtually.

They may well have local friends that help them. I live in a small village with a very aged population and the sense of support is strong. Not all 80 year olds are past it.

My parents think that their friends will do things like take them shopping, take them to hospital appointments, etc. Their nearest supermarket is at least an hour away. The hospital they have to go two is two hours away. Even if their friends remain capable, this isn't a fair ask on a regular basis. Their plan: "Someone will help."

How it's panning out: One parent had a procedure they were told they weren't to drive home for by the doctor. The other parent isn't really fit to drive far. The parent who had the procedure decided to drive home in spite of the doctor telling him not to. He was convinced not to by me, so the other parent ended up driving home the two hours when they aren't really fit to do so.

Well, we're moving closer to one set of family than the other, so somebody has to live far away. Out of the four of us, my parents have it fairly simple with two pairs of kids in two cities on the same motorway, but plenty have it much more dispersed. "I need to provide for my family and we all want to live in this sort of place" kind of outweighs "your aunt might tell you some stories".

But it's interesting that you're piling this all on the children - I fully accept that I might have to make changes to my lifestyle and even where I live if I want to be close to my son in the future.

And all the friend I know who prefer to rely on support from each other than from older family say the same thing - they prefer an obligation-free relationship between grandkids and family, with support given between friends. Because support coupled with constant criticism isn't appealing.

Well i can understand the concern but they did manage it.