The boats ..can we chat about it

[Grumpybird4]

4 more years of a labour government,so nothing is going to change,it's only going to get worse ..help me make sense of it please.
Where are they all going to live , where is the money coming from to house them and feed them and pay their bills..do they bring their families over when they have gained asylum here ,do we have enough Doctors appointments, hospital appointments and housing .
My husband supports open boarders ,he says there is enough money in the UK to house all whom want to come here ..but his argument for that is the royal family need to go ,and free up their money..
But that's not going to happen so there isn't actually enough housing or money.if there was we wouldn't have families in temporary accommodation for years ,and the government wouldn't be trying to cut pip if there was enough money.
My husband says when the UK goes round invading other countries it creates displaced people with no homes ,those are the people on the boats and we should help them all we can.
Government is now saying we should take the people in ,who live in the Garza strip , Palestine..yeah they definitely need help.
But all I hear is budget needs cutting..yet more people arrive .
Selfishly I have two disabled DC who will never live alone .they are going to need a council flat and help ,or assisted living..I'm worried sick for their future.
Worried reform will get in and strip all disability benefits
Worried about the amount of people coming in and the lack of homes for them and how that will effect my children.i know that's selfish..but we all want to put our families first .
I have great sympathy for the people coming over on the boats ,but I don't understand where the women and children are ,I just see men in the photos
So if it's safe to leave women and children behind,it's safe for men to stay and try to make a life in their own country
My husband says that whole family's club together to find the money to send a young man here for a better life ...but I don't get that ..how are they going to pay the bills once granted alyslum..two people on good income can't keep heads above water with cost of living.
I lie awake at night worried and feeling like a bad person for having these thoughts ..no one wants to discuss it ..I'm trying to understand the governments thinking,but I can't make sense of it ..what is the governments plan long term for these people,regarding housing,is there going to be enough for everyone

So The Tories were in for 14 years of austerity and we ended up with 900,000 immigrants in the final year, no solution to boats, benefit unsystsinable (I think a lot of people don’t know what that means - it is that we have NO money to pay them so many will be starving and homeless , ie on the streets), schools are underfunded, NHS on its knees. Sooooo
Labour get in, try to cut benefits, 9 out of 10 claimants would have been unaffected, cut payments to boomers with cut in wfa, but no not having it try to devise ways of stopping boats -but the electorate won’t have it so all these money saving plans FAIL so we continue on our merry way to bankruptcy, failed NHS, striking public servants etc

Companies are moving to the New York stock exchange, CEOs are moving to NYork, young people are off to Dubai and Australia.

When will the electorate open their greedy mitts and accept we need cuts.??????

wrong thread sorry

We aren’t actually told in Australia anymore how many boat people there are, as the government now keeps that information close to its chest. I do remember in the past that certain politicians would whip it up and make it sound like we were collapsing under the pressure of it all. The “Stop The Boats” slogan was originally used by Australian politicians years ago which was then copied and pasted by British politicians more recently. I am so glad we are no longer whipped up about it.

In some ways British immigration is stricter. For example here in Australia if you have an overseas partner that you wish to bring here, you don’t need to have a certain minimum income as sponsor them, whereas in the UK you do.

But yes, even though our legal immigration rate is higher than the UK, Australia is very strict when it comes to the relatively small number of refugee based immigration. They still take refugees but only those from UN run camps who have been processed there. Having met some of those refugees though, they sat there for + 10 years and lost family members from easily treatable health conditions before ending up in Australia. They were actually the priority ones too. So it’s not surprising that others “jump the queue” and take massive risks.

Also, Australia has spent an absolute fortune on those overseas holding facilities on remote Islands for not that many people, with some of the money ending up where it shouldn’t. So it’s not like countries save lots of money by being strict which is then spent on the health service or social security. It’s not the relatively small number of boat people causing the stresses on those resources anyway but more complex internal factors.

DS flew recently from Paris to Edinburgh and noticed there were loads on dinghies crossing the water. He couldn't believe his eyes looking out of the plane.

But we could return many to France before Brexit. Now we can’t. Plus the much-vaunted post-Brexit points-based immigration system introduced by the arch-Brexiteer Johnson now allows in 750,000 migrants each year.
But no, nothing to do with Brexit…

What a load of twaddle.

I've never mentioned benefits so not sure why that is even being discussed or has been mentioned by more than one poster. Fact is 1 person has a skilled worker visa but only doing max 12 hours a month in that role by choice. The Husband works all hours as a taxi driver. Grandmother and nurse mother stay home all day every day. Effectively the UK thought it was gaining a nurse but it gained a taxi driver.

It doesn’t matter, it was a couple of hundred a year and we took more than returned.

Everyone still able to do this has the same problems. Unless you can say which EU country is using this returns process to deal with migration successfully?

Fair enough. Not sure immigrants in general are a net drain on the public purse, though of course some surely will be. I found this just now, interesting to see an attempt to analyse the average cost of immigrants and native born.

https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/the-fiscal-impact-of-immigration-in-the-uk/

Just to reiterate, I do think we need a better conversation about immigration I just think it needs to involve proper recognition of the full picture (eg right now we couldn’t run the nhs without it) and a general assumption that people matter (eg dependent visas are reasonable, families should be able to be together). And I think it’s terribly damaging to try to blame all our economic woes on immigration to the extent that we are distracted from making proper investment in our own future (which is also the best way to get out of the situation where we rely on immigrants for certain jobs)

We were in a unique position because any boat people arriving must have come from France, so could potentially be returned there. Other countries with open land borders do not have the same option.
But Germany does manage to return over 20% of immigrants.

The skilled worker, nurse does about 12 hours a month. Taxi driver husband works roughly 16 hours a day. The UK gave that visa thinking they were getting an extra nurse not a taxi driver.

Our government fails us - imho we should not fund asylum seekers but instead give a temporary visa whilst the claim is decided. They can then work and start paying in the system immediately. Instead of funding with a hotel and then they work illegally anyway. If failed deportation immediately.
Women are not safe to be left behind, but quite often have no rights in the country they are fleeing. Unable to travel alone , or are left behind with the children. Its these women who I stand with and I feel for.

@Uol2022 is right about this:

the underlying driver of all that is massively increased inequality in recent decades, a massive transfer of wealth from both normal individuals and governments to a few absurdly rich people. It grinds everything to a halt.

Think of how much money we are paying in mortgages (to the banks' shareholders) and rent.
There is a HUGE flow of wealth from the taxpayer to the government to the tenants via housing benefit to the landlords. The taxpayers are giving money to the landlords, whilst the young suffer from not having somewhere stable to live.

Why is the % tax on income so much higher than tax on dividends received, or capital gains tax? You pay a higher % for working for your income than you do for sitting back and getting money from money.

However, the bigger problems are an aging population (costing an absolute fortune in pensions and age-related health treatments), and a sicker working age population due to decades of bad lifestyles and crap food.
Plus a mental health crisis among young people, possibly due to a toxic combination of smart phones and over-protective parenting (but who knows?)

There is not much any government can do about these entrenched issues, especially in the face of a media owned and run by the wealthy.

Your husbands attitude is wrong here.

we have no idea who these people are (mainly men), they could be many criminals amongst them. What about the safety of our general public?

Why is it the responsibility of Europe to house these men by the millions? Why don’t neighbouring countries nearer them take them?

I used to be more sympathetic, but then they housed some in my home town and they started going to the park to ply the teen girls with alcohol. They got moved. The press didn’t report it either. I had taken all these kinds of stories with a pinch of salt, but it hits different when you have it happen for real on your doorstep.

Is your husband an A-level politics student and the president of his Sixth Form college’s Student Union?

If you arrive illegally, you get deported immediately. Appeals can be made from abroad, not from some taxpayer funded hotel with taxpayer funded lawyers.

If you are already here illegally you should be deported. Offer a bounty.

Asylum claimants to be kept on Jura/some remote place in very basic accommodation.

Grey haired person- arrived on boat claims to be child i.e, under 18 - in yesterday's news and he is being allowed to be a child - reason - stress of living before in Afghanistan may have turned his hair GREY ! This only encourages more people to come - unlike Trumps new detention centre in Florida swamps!

Labour is deporting more illegal immigrants than the Conservatives did. Its problem is that it inherited a huge backlog and badly underfunded immigration system because it suited the Conservatives to make immigrants the focus and take everyone's minds off how crap the government was - till they realised it also suited Reform.

I also wish people would stop bandying ‘racism’ around when this topic is discussed. Race is not the issue. It could be boat loads of white people, but the issue still stands.
We are struggling to provide for the people born in this country as it is. It’s simply the fact that we cannot house any more humans that are not born here, unless they have the ability to work and support themselves from the off, thus paying into the system.

Racism seems to be the lazy term when people don’t want to have the difficult conversations.

More are crossing. Labour won’t want people to talk about it as ‘smash the gangs’ is a farce.

Of course they do. They still have the DA. You can either use it to return more than a couple of hundred or not.

You can’t if you look up what’s happening elsewhere.

The skilled worker visa has a minimum income attached to it, and the person needs to be employed by an approved employer who acts as their sponsor, and they need to update their visa if they change jobs. It’s not as simple as deciding to stop working, you need to evidence you meet the minimum income in the work you’re approved for.

With respect, you’ve completely misunderstood and over estimated the impact that the Dublin agreement and Brexit had on illegal migration to the UK. @EasternStandard is correct; we did not return large numbers to Europe and we received more than we sent. The stats are out there if you don’t believe it.

Also, the French authorities did not accept ‘they must have come from France’ as a reason why they should take a boat load of people from the UK, particularly as France is not the only place a boat could have launched from.

@Grumpybird4 why does the government not just send them right back without allowing them to land in the first place? why does the rnli take them onboard when their boat is still seaworthy? no admittance means no one!! we cannot afford all those people who have passed through countless countries to get here! they are economic refugees which does not give them status for coming here!

Isn’t this just a party political broadcast from reform?

It is. With a side order of faux-naïveté.