Transgender 4 year old wanting to join girls only group

[Helpwithdivorce]

So I’ll preface this by saying im very much a live your life however you please as long as you’re not hurting anybody kind of person. However I run a group, which is just for girls aged 4-7.

I’ve had a request from a parent for their child to join. The child is 4 and the parent said they are transgender. Now here is my predicament, which may be rightly or wrongly.

Firstly I feel like this mother is just out to cause drama, there are other very similar mixed gender groups, there is no reason this child needs to join a group only for girls.

Secondly I simply do not believe that a 3/4 year old child knows that they are transgender. I feel this is being peddled by the mother, again feeding the drama.

What would you do? I really don’t want this mother in my group, but the group is ‘inclusive’ so I can’t say no you can’t join.
Currently I’ve just ignored the request.

Well, according to the Supreme Court, this "thing" is very much "black and white". He isn't a girl.
Any chinwag should unvolve explaining that to his mum.
Typo edits

Transgender 4 year old? No it’s a child who is having ideas put in their head and a label put on them by their parents, just because they are a bit of a Tom boy/girl.

Well obviously you start with "we have a really long waiting list" then offer alternative groups. You can then say guides are reconsidering their position after the Supreme Court judgement and you cant say what that position will be when the child reaches the top of the waiting list.

Nice try but total and utter bullshit.

Try harder.

Are you an independent charity affiliated to girl guides? Because if so, its the responsibility of you and your trustees to follow the law. Girl guides dont just dictate what you do as you have your need to follow the law and comply with your own charitable purpose.

Incorrect interpretation of the ruling.

All these organisations, including councils, NHS and so on, that are 'awaiting guidance' because the interim isn't sufficient...

I can't wait until the guidance comes out and hopefully puts a stop to all these idiots that seem desperate not to comply with the law or respect the need for single sex spaces

personal opinions aside. The girl guiding website says they accept trans girls.

I don’t think you can turn them away as I would imagine you have to follow the GG rules ?

Having had previous experience with a parent like this, do not go there! We had a parent enroll her non-binary daughter in my DC's cadet group, so an older bunch of kids. She was a girl, had a girl's name, wore skirts, kept her hair in a bob so very much looked like a girl. But if any of the kids forgot and referred to her as 'she/her' rather than 'they/them', she would report home and this mother would come up guns blazing at the end of the meeting or the following week, ranting that the kids were all bigots, that it was our fault as parents as we were so ignorant, we were all arseholes, etc. She had one of my kids in tears one night (what 12 year old wants to be caught in a blazing row between adults) - I found one of the cadet leaders at pick up time trying to defend my 12 year old daughter for her slip of the tongue, my daughter desperately trying to apologise, while this woman yelled at her. There was nearly murder. She also tried repeatedly to come in and give the kids lectures on how to be kind, which she wanted us to attend as parents as well. It made cadets an absolute nightmare and a couple of volunteers didn't come back because of her. She was just using her child, who was a sweet kid and painfully shy, to push her own agenda. Don't let this happen to four year olds!

I don’t think the mother really believes her child is transgender. She just wants a convenient group for her child. Really who knows at that age. At 3 my nephew wanted to wear pink dresses. His Mum bought him a couple. At 6 he would have been embarrassed if anyone had reminded him of that.

Tell them to sod off. Personally I'd report them to Social Services.

Assuming the child is biologically male, I'd seek some guidance before replying. It would be difficult to keep saying there are no new spaces for 3 years as members leave during that time. I think once you have the guidance, if they say you have to admit this child, you can make a decision about whether to leave girlguiding over it.

Tell me what's the protected characteristic that a trans boy shares with female children?

I actually think it’s really unhealthy in the long term for children to be accepted into groups for the opposite sex. Kid is 4 probably having a passing phase of liking stuff that’s considered girly.

The obvious answer is to let them be a child and play with whatever. Slap a label of trans on them and reinforce with going to groups for that sex and it becomes self reinforcing in a way must be a girl as I go to brownies.

I think peopled who grow up in a be kind bubble hsve a terrible shock when they grow up and realise no matter what they do they can never change sex.

You wish!

Single sex means single sex.

How can a 4 year old be transgender?

You are interpreting the ruling incorrectly. Writing it in capitals doesn't make it true.

Would this qualify for a safeguarding referral? As this is extremely troubling for the wellbeing of the 4yr old that they are being labelled as transgender.

I do also think groups that age don’t need to be single sex and can’t think of why they’d need to be.

I really feel for you being in this situation, OP.

Girlguiding is hopelessly misguided on this subject.

'Girlguiding promotes an inclusive and safe environment where all girls and young women, including trans girls and young women, should feel accepted. Non-binary people assigned female at birth and trans boys as new young members based on their sex should also feel welcome.'

So they accept girls, boys who say they are girls, girls who say they are boys, and girls who say they are not boys or girls.

Quite why they exclude boys who say they are not boys or girls is a mystery.

https://www.girlguiding.org.uk/information-for-volunteers/running-your-unit/including-all/lgbt-members/supporting-trans-members/

This is why I didn't let my DD continue with Rainbows/Brownies.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10235539/Girlguides-launch-probe-trans-Commissioner-58-saucy-dominatrix-style-picture.html

The ruling was very clear. This is nothing to do with interim guidelines being insufficient, it is about the power they have handed to trans activists and their fear of finally having to tell them ‘no, other people have rights too’.

You're in a difficult position OP.
But you have to follow GG rules - even though the rules need changing. Pressure from units receiving applications like this needs to be applied upwards so you get the support you need. Please escalate it to your DC.
There's a very short statement on the website dated 25 April 2025.

In no way whatsoever.

The NHS would perhaps use the term 'gender incongruent' or 'gender questioning' for older children who are questioning gender roles, but at age four, this would be an utter nonsense.

GG are not above the law. You have to follow the law.

Quite.

The law isn't going to change between now and the guidance coming out. There isn't an alternative interpretation as the ruling was explicit in its comments about sex.

It was also explicit in saying that the law just fell apart and was unworkable if you didn't come to this conclusion.

Its legal illiteracy to think anything differently to this.

Sex means sex. Not 'well if you are nice about it, we can ignore the law'.

At some point, given the efforts to resist this, there will be legal challenges which will become high profile and this will force the issue because it will be costly and it will affect insurance.

Noting here that the ruling also gave protections for anyone who presents as trans. This means if a male group or a mixed sex group have a problem with a male child joining because their parents think they are trans they HAVE to accept that child and ensure they are not discriminated against. This means this child is safeguarded, both from other child and from their batshit parents.

Notably without having to use girls to validate and erode their own boundaries and language and be second class service humans to fit the unreasonable demands of other parents.

Rainbows is a section of the Girl Guide grouping.

'Section' is the term they use to describe the different age groups in guiding: Rainbows, Brownies, Guides and Rangers. Each section has its own programme of age-appropriate activities. Girls can move up to the next section when they reach the right age.