Transgender 4 year old wanting to join girls only group

[Helpwithdivorce]

So I’ll preface this by saying im very much a live your life however you please as long as you’re not hurting anybody kind of person. However I run a group, which is just for girls aged 4-7.

I’ve had a request from a parent for their child to join. The child is 4 and the parent said they are transgender. Now here is my predicament, which may be rightly or wrongly.

Firstly I feel like this mother is just out to cause drama, there are other very similar mixed gender groups, there is no reason this child needs to join a group only for girls.

Secondly I simply do not believe that a 3/4 year old child knows that they are transgender. I feel this is being peddled by the mother, again feeding the drama.

What would you do? I really don’t want this mother in my group, but the group is ‘inclusive’ so I can’t say no you can’t join.
Currently I’ve just ignored the request.

You have misunderstood the ruling. It says that organisations are not obliged to include trans people in single-sex spaces (i.e. they can lawfully exclude trans people), but not that it is unlawful to include them.

My child had a very ungenderd upbringing until pre-school suddenly it was boys do this girls do that so it is useful to be able to counter those messages from that age

Really good point. One of my sons loves rainbows, glitter, pink, anything fluffy or sparkly, ponies etc and we just let him play with whatever but no way would I be requesting he join a girls only group. Luckily most groups for this age are mixed so it’s never come up. He has asked me if he can be a girl when he grows up and I said no. It’s not difficult to explain to a child they can like to do activities but it won’t make them female.

@Helpwithdivorce are you sure this child is a boy? If the mother has given you a boy’s name and told you the child is transgender, I’d assume child is actually a girl.
Though I can understand you not wanting the mother in the group either way!

GG rules are unlawful.

Incorrect interpretation of the ruling.

'Membership of an association of 25 or more people can be limited to men only or women only and can be limited to people who each have two protected characteristics. It can be, for example, for gay men only or lesbian women only. A women-only or lesbian-only association should not admit trans women (biological men), and a men-only or gay men-only association should not admit trans men (biological women).'

https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/media-centre/interim-update-practical-implications-uk-supreme-court-judgment

Yes sometimes a group does need to be single sex to ensure girls get a fair crack at the whip. Boys often dominate groups for a variety of reasons.

The mother put a note on his file to say ‘thomas is transgender’

Honestly I don’t actually care if thomas is a biological boy or girl at this point. I do not want this level of drama in my group. I just don’t want or need that kind of parent in my life

There was a very clear example of a women’s walking group - the answer was it either
a) is single sex because it’s addressing a particular need, in which case no men (however they identify) can join
or
b) it’s fine for transwomen to join, in which case there is no case to exclude other men.
This was r explained very clearly in the parliamentary subcommittee

Of course it's legal to include as long as they meet the initial protected characteristic so transmen with women, transwomen with men.

Are you saying the single sex groups counter that messaging? I’d imagine they would reinforce it, but my children do mixed groups so I haven’t come across it.

Rainbows?

It is a group for girls so only those born as female. If mum is adamant for the child to join a group where gender does not matter then point them in the direction of Squirrel Scouts who take both sexes.

When mum says transgender does she not actually mean gender neutral? Quite different things to be honest.

They can't. They aren't even close to gillick competent for starters.

The Cass Review highlights that there are small number of parents who are homophobic or using their child(ren) for their own emotional needs in a way which is abusive (Munchausens). It states that social transistion is NOT a neutral act and has an impact which should not be dismissed as 'just being nice' as this isn't necessarily in the best interests of that child.

Calling a 4 year old child trans comes with a whole row of safeguarding red flags and should be treated accordingly.

We need to be standing up and saying this very loudly indeed.

This is surely a safeguarding referral?! If nothing else the mother seems to have issues she’s putting on her very young child.

@Helpwithdivorce My observation is that the mother is being political and using her son as a chess piece in her own unwise game. She is looking for a reaction. Do not give it to her. Do not respond. If forced, then "Rainbows is so popular there is a waiting list, but a helpful similar alternative would be Squirrels and here are the contact details ..."

Regardless of the current guidance from the organisation, we know that they do actually have to comply with the law.

It would therefore not be responsible or fair to allow this child to join when you know that their guidance will have to change in the next few weeks.

Thomas has an attention seeking Mum who wants to be cool. There's no way that a 4 year old is trans and I would steer clear of this family - they've given you an easy way to do that. If your management don't back you up, I'd consider leaving.

💯

It happens in allsorts of places. Classrooms to hobby groups. Sometimes for girls to get a fair chance we need to have female only options.

https://supremecourt.uk/cases/press-summary/uksc-2024-0042

The ruling is crystal clear.

It's available for anyone to read.

100%/

This..

If they have a boys name is it possible that it is a female child with a (new) boys name? And male pronouns being used?

According to the supreme Court, in this scenario the child could join Rainbows. (IANAL). However the Girlguiding policy doesn't match the supreme Court ruling.

Given that it's unclear what sex the child is, I would reply that it's under review currently, and await the EHRC final guidance and knock on change to Girlguiding rules which will inevitably result and will bring it in line with the supreme Court.

Why can he join the Squirrels/Beavers group (it’s mixed sex)?!

There is absolutely no way that 4 year old Thomas would know whether he was Trans or not - this is the mother. Just say no!