Transgender 4 year old wanting to join girls only group

[Helpwithdivorce]

So I’ll preface this by saying im very much a live your life however you please as long as you’re not hurting anybody kind of person. However I run a group, which is just for girls aged 4-7.

I’ve had a request from a parent for their child to join. The child is 4 and the parent said they are transgender. Now here is my predicament, which may be rightly or wrongly.

Firstly I feel like this mother is just out to cause drama, there are other very similar mixed gender groups, there is no reason this child needs to join a group only for girls.

Secondly I simply do not believe that a 3/4 year old child knows that they are transgender. I feel this is being peddled by the mother, again feeding the drama.

What would you do? I really don’t want this mother in my group, but the group is ‘inclusive’ so I can’t say no you can’t join.
Currently I’ve just ignored the request.

Exactly what could be said that would make it ok for a biological boy to a join a girls group?

Why must the girls concede their spaces to help him feel better? Do their feelings not matter?

The 'little one' doesn't 'see herself as a girl'. He is a 4 year old preschooler. The fact that GG are captured means the OP is caught in the middle, however, it really is black/white - he is a little boy and so can't join Rainbows

I haven't read all the responses, OP, but a transgender four year old?*
As far as I'm concerned this is a safeguarding concern.
And, I'm not a lawyer, but I thought the law was now on your side anyway.

*Usual caveat being that they're not biologically intersex etc.

Doesn’t that mean if you accept some males you are unfairly excluding the rest of them?

I'd just send back, 'I'm sorry but we are currently full with a very long waiting list and no longer accepting requests' and no other comment.

The national guidelines stated that boys who identify as girls are permitted to join. On a local level either the problems hasn't arisen or local leaders have managed to work around it.

I think it was also a rule that girls who identified as boys were not permitted to join

Defer to the law - the Supreme Court ruling was clear - single sex spaces/organisations have to be just that - single sex. So if you admit this child you would have made the group mixed sex and be required to admit any other boy who wanted to join.

I’d just completely ignore the request, it sounds like the mother is trying to catch you out. Or as a PP suggested, you could say you’re awaiting guidance on the matter.

I havent read the whole thread but not sure why so many posters feel that OP needs to reference the recent Supreme Court ruling, it only clarified the law which already existed. The law is the law. Single sex means just that.

@Helpwithdivorce the Supreme Court has spoken its that simple.
The answer is no !

Hang on a minute - so the parent comes along and says "Jack would like to join. Jack is transgender". Are you 100% positive Jack is not a little girl who told her mum she likes trucks and wants to be called Jack and mum jumped on the bandwagon and said "OK Jack you are a boy now and we will call you he/him" in which case you are fine to take Jack and call her, her, and tell mum "all female children are fine to join, and we don't think liking trucks makes Jack a boy, so we'll call her Jack but we'll say 'OK girls, snack time now'".
If mum wants the group to call Jack a boy, mum can take her to Squirrels, but don't forget to give the Squirrels leaders a heads up that Jack needs to be sleeping with the girls.
(I have firmly told my DCs' scout leaders that they will be sleeping in single sex, not single gender, tents and bedrooms).

On a local level, according to parents and leaders I know, it has happened - leaders have put up with it or left.

This 100%

Good grief. Way to vindictively punish an innocent four year old for the mother’s mistake. “The transgender”??

Perfect! That's all that needs to be said.

A 4 year old is not 'transgender' it's just not possible.
He is a little boy with parents afflicted by the gender woo nonsense.

Just say no. It is not fair on him or the little girls.

TBF, you'd be AMAZED how many emails do get lost by volunteer organisations in a very honest and legitimate way.

Just ignoring the email for now, might well be the way to go and leave the ball in the court of the parent. Claim ignorance and by that time, given the guidance will be out and the politicians finally seem to be quietly say 'stop being bellends about this', you'll be able to say 'NOPE NOT ALLOWED' a bit easier in just a couple of weeks.

@SlipperyLizard @Verv If she does that, the unit will probably close because the Commissioners will be very swift to expel her for not following policy.
I know leaders who have done that, and it's a route that many would decide they would take.
But at this precise moment in time, it could also be possible to delay the decision, or put the mum off, and keep the unit open for the girls who are in it.

Haven't read the full thread - but Girlguiding have said they are waiting for the guidance to come out on this matter following the SC ruling.
The current rules would say you have to admit this child as GG is a single gender organisation. But they would have to leave if they then decided to be male.
I suggest you escalate this to your District Commissioner for advice asap.
Personally I think the clarification of the law from the Supreme Court will mean this child won't be allowed to join. But GG hasn't made a statement or decision yet.

A 4 year old isn’t transgender, their parents are controlling. This is so so dangerous.

You have misunderstood. Single sex organisations HAVE to be single sex. You cannot admit someone of the opposite sex (and sex means biological sex) and still be single sex. So a woman only organisation cannot admit men, however they identify, and still be women only. They cannot admit some men (eg those who identify as women) and not other men.

Not everything has to be inclusive.

You wouldn’t put your name down to start nursery in September, would you??

A 4 year old cannot be ‘transgender’. The boy’s mother is insane.

4 year olds only know what their parents/teachers tell them to know. I find the idea of a trans 4 year old uncomfortable and highly suspicious.

I don’t think I can just say no you can’t join as so far as I know girlguiding stance is that If you say you’re a girl you can join.

GG is not above the law. No matter what their 'stance' if their policy is that the group is for females only, then they must only admit females.

If you admit a male child, the group becomes mixed sex.

This is the law OP and you could be personally liable.

The current rules are unlawful.