Transgender 4 year old wanting to join girls only group

[Helpwithdivorce]

So I’ll preface this by saying im very much a live your life however you please as long as you’re not hurting anybody kind of person. However I run a group, which is just for girls aged 4-7.

I’ve had a request from a parent for their child to join. The child is 4 and the parent said they are transgender. Now here is my predicament, which may be rightly or wrongly.

Firstly I feel like this mother is just out to cause drama, there are other very similar mixed gender groups, there is no reason this child needs to join a group only for girls.

Secondly I simply do not believe that a 3/4 year old child knows that they are transgender. I feel this is being peddled by the mother, again feeding the drama.

What would you do? I really don’t want this mother in my group, but the group is ‘inclusive’ so I can’t say no you can’t join.
Currently I’ve just ignored the request.

Maybe someone already pointed this out, but it’s not even the Supreme Court judgement that comes into play here. The child (I want to write ‘the poor wee mite’) can’t have a Gender Recognition Certificate because s/he is a child, so s/he is simply her/his physical sex for legal purposes. That was already covered under the Haldane judgement. The SC was about whether GRCs changed the legal sex of holders; the SC ruled that GRCs do not.

The child might have the protected characteristic of gender reassignment, but it would be interesting to see that tested in court for a four year old.

The child might have the protected characteristic of gender reassignment, but it would be interesting to see that tested in court for a four year old.

Oh by god, would I like to see parents of a four year old child take someone to court for discrimination on the basis that their child was trans when the other party's defence is they are trying to safeguard the child from their Munchausen parents.

Trying to prove the child is trans rather than emotionally abused would be interesting to say the least.

So what frame of reference is your grandchild using to know what a boy is?

We saw a family being celebrated with “the youngest transgender child in the UK!” on Breakfast tv a few years ago. She was a girl who had been dressed in very ‘girly’ clothes by her mother and uncomfortable looking hairclips etc. She had a twin brother who got the comfortable clothes, the short, non tangly hair and judging by the family, sounded like he’d had more positive attention and was allowed to do more cool ‘boy’ stuff than she was.

3/4 yr old logic worked out that being a boy looked like a far more attractive proposition. Attention seeking parents took that and ran with it. I am worried for the future and health of that poor girl. Her parents have told her the most wicked of lies.

Yes. @Samiloff is saying the reasonable (and correct) thing.

I’m sure you want the best for your grandchild and there may have been a threat of ‘no contact’ (there certainly are in too many families afflicted by this) but the best for your grandchild is not agreeing that she is really a boy. She really isn’t.

What kind of an horrific realisation is she going to get when she hits puberty and her body does the girl thing (despite the best efforts of trans activists causing schools to reach that boys can menstruate, most sane people know it’s only a thing girls do). Pretending she’s really a boy puts her at future risk of sexual assault when sharing boys spaces and if she stays on that path, her health will be ruined if she starts taking testosterone.

Kids do not have a ‘deep knowing’ about who they are, they don’t have the cognitive development for that. Please advocate for your grandchild and help her parents see the truth before it’s too late.

Excellent article - very good explanation for gender dysphoria

When adult parents no longer are dawned over for their 'bravery' and instead are recognised as emotionally abusive, suddenly it's starts to be less attractive to have a 'trans child'

That didn’t happen.

I share you views, but I know I'd have to seek help from friends as to how to word a reply. You don't want to leave her room to argue, and you don't want to do anything to trigger legal action. But you also don't want to lie.

I find your sexual abuse analogy shocking.

That is because it is purposefully emotionally manipulative - using sexually abused children to try and justify their abuse.

What a shit show. He’s a boy, he has a penis - he’s male. If you are running a girls’ club then HE can’t join, Stop entertaining this utter madness.

Or even if they're not starstruck about having a trans child, just becoming aware of the potential frightening impacts of their behaviour on their child might make them pause. The adults are creating the dysphoria AND the inability of the child to analyze or discuss how they're feeling.

Plus, of course, boys are also entitled to privacy from girls.

The only analogy I can think of is if a child told you that they had been sexually abused. The first response should be “I believe you “ .

This is gross. What a disgusting comparison.

An innocent child who doesn't fully understand the world needs guidance. Not having their head fucked with and emotionally abused in relation to their sex.

No one can change sex.

Well done Op & thank you for taking this stance.

School is about to break up for summer. We should have the updated guidance in the autumn. So putting this child on the waiting list for that period won't deny any other child a space.

By raising them as something they are not you are telling this child their internal subjective feelings superseeds everyone elses reality and needs.

When they innevitably are rejected by someone for this i.e. cannot join single sex group, the narrative will not be "we as your family have done something wrong by giving you the impression that your feelings should be affirmed without question by other people".

The narrative is families say "they are excluding you because they are hateful/bigoted/backward/transphobic/uneducated/uncultured/they don't understand etc..." This sets the child up to think that they are in some way special because they are experiencing something that people are fearful of or choosing to hate.

This is how narcissim happens. A child grows up without learning the skills to cope with criticism and critique in a valuable way. So everytime someone disagrees or ignores them or doesn't compliment them, their only response is aggression (name callinge, death threats etc.. ).

Females have separate spaces and social structure that has evolved around the risk that males pose to them. Its a safety and survival environmental need to protect females, not to affirm males. This is not hateful or political but reality. I fully support TG people to make spaces and social structure for themselves to achieve the same goal.

Currently Girl Guiding rules say you cannot tell the other parents that a boy is going to be camping with their girls
I quit as a Guider over this

I remember that. The poor little girl. Her parents were unspeakable idiots.

The story of Jazz Jennings is relevant here.

That poor child. Born male, the mother said that Jazz "liked everything sparkly and pink".
Oh, that must mean he had to be a girl! Poor child, such a sad story. Although no doubt we'd be called "bigots" on here for thinking that.

Are you sure Thomas is a not girl? I mean could Thomas be biologically female but wants to be Thomas and the transgender is the other way round. That sounds very cumbersome and when I wake up properly I might explain it better. Sorry if it's already been suggested I'm looking after 2 year old GC and we haven't had much sleep with the heat.

My experience is if you don't make a fuss about it they will grow out of it. Wasn't a big issue with us as I didn't really do the girly stuff with DD so when her little brother said he was a girl he just wore jeans and t shirts like she did and eventually he forgot about it.

Obviously more awkward if the parents are really committed one way or the other.

I wanted to be a cowboy. Cowboys were big in the 50s.

I get what you’re saying. Ie. Thomas is actually called Thomasina, and is a girl, but prefers going by the male name, Thomas.

Thank you. I need a coffee.