Transgender 4 year old wanting to join girls only group

[Helpwithdivorce]

So I’ll preface this by saying im very much a live your life however you please as long as you’re not hurting anybody kind of person. However I run a group, which is just for girls aged 4-7.

I’ve had a request from a parent for their child to join. The child is 4 and the parent said they are transgender. Now here is my predicament, which may be rightly or wrongly.

Firstly I feel like this mother is just out to cause drama, there are other very similar mixed gender groups, there is no reason this child needs to join a group only for girls.

Secondly I simply do not believe that a 3/4 year old child knows that they are transgender. I feel this is being peddled by the mother, again feeding the drama.

What would you do? I really don’t want this mother in my group, but the group is ‘inclusive’ so I can’t say no you can’t join.
Currently I’ve just ignored the request.

Excellent response OP 👍 I would do the same

Awful situation to be in

If your grandchild was anorexic you wouldn't agree with them that they were fat and put them on a diet. You need to support your grandchild to understand that they can express themselves however they want but they are not the other sex and explain that anyone who tells them otherwise doesn't have their best interests at heart.

Even if you decide to make the group mixed sex, no way would I want to deal w/ a woman who transes her 4 year old boy.

Of course, you could be the role model that poor boy needs, but that's really not your duty nor your remit - only a professional can help that poor kid escape his Munchausen mother.

We've been emotionally blackmailed and socially bullying into being kind by a bunch of Munchausen Mothers. And yes that is what they are.

4 year old CAN NOT be trans.

The insanity of going along with the idea that they can really needs to be said. Bluntly.

You don’t think gaslighting girls harms them?

Or telling them they can’t actually have something that’s for them alone if a boy wants it?

You sound reasonable, and of course they talked about it, but nothing anyone could say could change their mind. That’s because it wasn’t a childish whim, it was a deep knowing inside. Distraction like what was for tea would have been insulting to a child who was talking about something that was really important to them. The only analogy I can think of is if a child told you that they had been sexually abused. The first response should be “I believe you “ .

I don’t even know if my grandchild knows what trans is. At four a child definitely doesn’t know. And won’t be aware of discussions on the internet about it. They just know how they feel.

Well, we'll have to disagree. I don’t believe a child has "a deep knowing inside" about their "gender identity", other than identifying or not identifying with gender stereotypes to which they’ve been exposed. I find your sexual abuse analogy shocking.

When my daughter was two she told us she was a bear. She kept it up for months, talking about her furry paws etc. We made it clear it was a game but not real. She grew out of it.

Please explain to me how we are telling this child that their feelings are more important than other people’s?

That is not a comparable analogy unless you are suggesting that children who say they have been sexually abused are saying it because they 'felt it happened' rather than it actually happening

This child at 4 as you describe did not have a knowing deep inside, they dont know anything at 4 of that nature, dont even understand sex differences. Its not about 'changing their mind', your family are abusive to this child, this is why children like this end up self harming and suicidal, not because they are trans and vulnerable, but because they are emotionally exploited and harmed. They dont get the actual treatment and therapy they need which is to be comfortable with who they are in every sense.

You said they were 4 and didn’t want to change name. This suggests that the social transition was at least in part adult led.

The analogy with sex abuse doesn’t work, because that is a child describing a concrete experience. The child may not understand what happened, but they can describe what happened.

On the other hand, to a child, sex is an abstract concept.

@KatieAlcock The Scout Association and Girlguiding are different entities.

Waddya know. Every day’s a school day. 👍

@IridescentRainbow

If a four year old girl suddenly starts telling a parent that they are really a boy inside, what is the parent supposed to do? In my world it’s to really listen, ask some questions to clarify things, and then believe them.

Good parenting means not believing everything a child says nor affirming everything a child wants. My daughter consistently, and over many years, has said that she has a second stomach for chocolate. Should I have allowed her to eat the same weight of chocolate as her regular meal?

How could you possibly believe something as absurd as what your grandchild says? We don't believe children when they say they are Spiderman, which is a far cry different that believing a child who says they've been abused. It's not possible for a child to be Spiderman nor is it possible to be born the wrong sex.

Good parenting means knowing when and when not to support a child's fantasy. I feel horrible for your GC and hope she has some sane adult in her life eventually.

They do not have the ability to verbalise anything more than a preference for something.

It is parents who are translating this into gender.

If parents, actually parent rather than impose their sexist views on their children then they aren't set up for harm when they go through puberty and find out that yes, sex does matter.

There genuinely is a point where it doesn't matter what the hell someone, much less a child, thinks in their head when it's at odds with reality.

Poor kid ☹️ Insanity that any parent is indulging such nonsense at 4 years old 😢

A failure to explain reality and say no, is neglect.

It is neglecting their emotional need to be taught about the real world being different to fantasy.

Kids can't always have what they want. The end.

@CurlewKate sorry I didn't mean to tag you and can't get rid of it.

@CunningLinguist2 the law is the end point here not what made up nonsense girl guides has decided to spout

If a child says that they strongly believe they are the opposite sex from the one that they in fact are, you can believe that they mean what they say without believing that they are right. The next step is to try to find out what they think ‘being a boy’ or ‘being a girl’ means, since they’ve evidently acquired some incorrect beliefs which make them feel they can’t be the sex they in fact are.

@RedToothBrush same could be said of religion esp if its creating little boys at 4 years old who are already dominating females??

This with bells on.

Telling a child they can be a different sex to the one they actually are is abuse. It is emotional abuse.

No one will ever convince me differently.

I've seen it happen in real time to my brother and it did enough damage to me constantly telling me that me and my brother had been 'born the wrong way round' and both of us should have been the opposite sex.

It is not ok.

You could have helped them in other ways than agree sex can be changed.

The mere idea of a 4-year-old being transgender is dodgy as all fuck.I sn't it just!

Sometimes doing the right thing is doing the hard thing not doing the easy thing. That's saying no.

There's a Modern Family episode where Lily around age 4 tells people "I'm gay." As her parents are a gay male couple, there's lots of funny scenes with her dads and her step-grandmother Gloria trying to parse this out.

Ultimately, they work out that Lily believes she's gay cause her dads are, just like a boy at school is Italian because his parents are. They see it now as an adorable way of identifying with family rather than an early coming out, and in response, they realize they need to introduce Lily to her Vietnamese heritage (which causes even more hilarious scenes).

This is a perfect example of how parents should address a young child's declarations. Figure out what is driving a child's belief rather than instantly affirming it.