Transgender 4 year old wanting to join girls only group

[Helpwithdivorce]

So I’ll preface this by saying im very much a live your life however you please as long as you’re not hurting anybody kind of person. However I run a group, which is just for girls aged 4-7.

I’ve had a request from a parent for their child to join. The child is 4 and the parent said they are transgender. Now here is my predicament, which may be rightly or wrongly.

Firstly I feel like this mother is just out to cause drama, there are other very similar mixed gender groups, there is no reason this child needs to join a group only for girls.

Secondly I simply do not believe that a 3/4 year old child knows that they are transgender. I feel this is being peddled by the mother, again feeding the drama.

What would you do? I really don’t want this mother in my group, but the group is ‘inclusive’ so I can’t say no you can’t join.
Currently I’ve just ignored the request.

This. I don't like girls and boys being separated so young and can't see the need for 4 year olds to be in a girls' only group. However, if it's girls only, it should be girls only.

Dear A,
I have received the application for B to join our waiting list. Unfortunately there’s an extremely long wait at the moment, so it will be some time until a place comes up. I thought it was only fair to inform you that it is likely that by the time a place becomes available we will be unable to accept B. The Supreme Court has clarified it is illegal to allow a male child into a single sex organisation, regardless of gender identity, I anticipate the Girl Guides guidance to change soon in reflection of the clarification of law.

I thought you might like to know that Scouts now have ‘Squirrels’ for 4-6 years old, this is a mixed sex organisation so B will definitely be able to join when a spot comes up there, and won’t have to leave further down the line.

Please let me know if you’d like me to keep B on the waiting list!

Kind regards,

Four year olds are not transgendered.
But their parent can have a form of Munchausens by Proxy.
Tell her sorry this group is for girls only, Willy free.

That's a good point.

But actually I don’t even care what sex this child is. I’m not paid for this and I don’t want this kind of parent in my life

Absolutely fair enough @Helpwithdivorce and the sooner organisations realise that force teaming wonderful and generous volunteers with a ludicrous (and dangerous to children & safeguarding) ideology is pissing people off & volunteers are leaving, the better.

Personally…I would do the usual acknowledgement of the child that I do for every other child…not to include “perhaps you should look elsewhere,” etc—just the bog standard waiting list protocol that everyone gets. I wouldn’t want to give any idea that this application is not being treated the same as everyone else’s.

When Thomas gets to the top of the list, I would contact the highest person in the organization whose email I could find, and say the following in email (ie, in writing): “Thomas Smith, a biological boy whose parents said on their application that Thomas identifies as a girl, has reached the top of our waiting list. I am aware of Supreme Court Ruling xyz from x date 2025, whereby it was ruled that it is illegal to xyz, and am unsure what communications to give to Thomas’ parents, as I do not want to be in breach of the current UK law. Can you please advise me on how I should lawfully proceed?” CC in the highest people in Guides that you can find—HR, PR, etc, etc. Also CC in your direct supervisor. Cover your arse.

Contact social services. It's child abuse what she is pushing on the poor child.

@surreygirl1987

I personally wouldn't choose a single sex group for my 4 year old BUT other people might for good reason. Not everyone has the same needs.

Generally boys are more dominant and take up more space, this in part is socially conditioning.

This is shown in hundreds of ways from girls being told to sit and be quiet, and boys will be boys. Think about many 4 year old boy t-shirt slogans Roarrrr/dinosaurs/superman and then girls pretty/sequins/bekind

Now I don't subscribe to these gender stereotypes but sometimes for these reasons, and for many other reasons, some girls flourish in all girl environments even at that age.

I would let them sit on waiting list and no i wouldn't transfer them to next age group list.

my daughter is part of a group that is female only and that is what I would exspect. I wouldn’t be happy with this young boy joining a female only space. I would be pulling my child from the group. My daughter attends a girls Lego club. She enjoys the club and appreciates the space away from boys. This child is being taught that he can muscle in on female spaces. He will become entitled just like his mother if people don’t stand up to this nonsense. If you can I would say no and suggest another group he could join like squirrels 🐿️

I'm sure there are plenty of mixed sex groups this boy could join, but then his mum won't get to feel special
and there's absolutely nothing wrong with a single sex group fgs

Indeed, and one reason a parent may want a girls only group is if their daughter is surrounded by a bevie of brothers at home.

I doubt SS would know what to do with it.

A 4 year old being presented as ‘transgender’ warrants a social worker. I can not believe the lunacy that a child so young would have any concept of their present or future gender identity.

I stopped being a Rainbows leader partly due to similar issues. Here is the current guidance for leaders of Girlguiding:
www.girlguiding.org.uk/information-for-volunteers/running-your-unit/including-all/lgbt-members/supporting-trans-members/

"...but I don't see why such tiny children need to be girls or boys"

I'm struggling to fathom this statement by a pp because it isn't a case of needing to be one or the other. With the exception of the rarest of rare genetic disorders, tiny children ARE either girls or boys. End of.

If he has a penis he is not a girl. Until he has a vagina he is not a girl. My daughter goes to brownies and I would not allow camps and sleepovers with a boy no matter how much his mum says he's a girl.

I agree too.

Absolutely. It's not a whim. It's biology.

This. I think it’s crazy for a parent to label such a young child. I think it would be a cause for concern and would be tempted to inform SS. Sounds like the parent is just projecting her views into the child. At the age of 4 they do not know they want to be the opposite sex.

Those with rare genetic disorders are boys or girls too.

I agree. It’s a wonder that when women go for their 20 week scan that they are told the sex of their baby now. Perhaps we will reach the point where they say ‘your baby is healthy but we no longer tell you girl or boy as it’s a label and they should decide for themselves where they are born and feel ready’.

I despair.

I think the pp upthread was onto something when they suggested Munchausens by Proxy.

This is why I’m sadly not a leader anymore after 17 years 😢

This why I left and have not returned. I believe that safeguarding is important. I say this a survivor of all childhood and adolescence ACE’s. I believe that you should be trusted to comfort a child in an appropriate manner.
Giving a child a hug if they physically reach out to you for one is not inappropriate. You give a hug of reassurance and then encourage them to return to the activity. This is not allowed though.

Yet having men or boys infiltrate this space is appropriate apparently. Until there is clear change of policy that it is single sex only and more is done to be inclusive of disability I shall not be returning to volunteer.