Transgender 4 year old wanting to join girls only group

[Helpwithdivorce]

So I’ll preface this by saying im very much a live your life however you please as long as you’re not hurting anybody kind of person. However I run a group, which is just for girls aged 4-7.

I’ve had a request from a parent for their child to join. The child is 4 and the parent said they are transgender. Now here is my predicament, which may be rightly or wrongly.

Firstly I feel like this mother is just out to cause drama, there are other very similar mixed gender groups, there is no reason this child needs to join a group only for girls.

Secondly I simply do not believe that a 3/4 year old child knows that they are transgender. I feel this is being peddled by the mother, again feeding the drama.

What would you do? I really don’t want this mother in my group, but the group is ‘inclusive’ so I can’t say no you can’t join.
Currently I’ve just ignored the request.

And she couldn’t call it girls only - she would have to make it plain it is mixed sex if she did.

I'll highlight the pertinent part:

'A women-only ... association should not admit trans women (biological men).'

It could not be clearer. That's the EHRC guidance. The Supreme Court Judgement was also crystal clear.

Tell me what’s untrue about it? The Supreme Court made it clear that single- sex services either have to be for one sex only, or have to admit they are mixed-sex.

If you have the energy, say no, and fight anyone who tells you otherwise. We need test cases, and although you may go down in a blaze of glory, yours may be the instance that breaks the camel’s back in respect of forcing Guiding to follow the law.

But you’ll be dragged through a hedge for it, and you’ll get a lot of publicity, some of which will be adverse. So if you’re not up for a fight….

this should be regarded a child abuse imo. Poor kid

Their child isn't transgender, it is a 4 year old that likes playing with a variety of toys.

The mother has decided she she is going to raise them as gender neutral to try and be super cool.

The child itself won't give a toss if it goes to Beavers ( both girls and boys) or Rainbows.

You may be hamstrung by GG UK though, remember this is a group you run, not ' your' group. GG UK call the shots and make the rules ( of which there are ridiculous amounts that make no sense and contradict each other) .

Which bit of my post was untrue @autisticat ?

And what will you do at the end? Will you transfer to a guides list? Or delete them? I’m happy to ignore and let them sit on my frankly huge waiting list but I don’t want to pass them on to make it someone else’s problem

We have 2 localish scout troops. One is 50/50 boys and girls, the other ( from an all boys cubs) has 1 girl. It's made things quite difficult from and organisational point, and the girl is really not fitting in with the boys. It's definitely mum driven.

Stop

I'd stick him at the end of an extremely long waiting list and unfortunately he would age out before reaching the top.

Indeed. One of my children at that age identified as a train. Another thought they were either Postman Pat or Mrs Goggins. Like every other sane parent, we humoured them for a while and they grew out of it.

I feel very sad for this poor child , who is being abused and manipulated by their parents . Of course, girls in the group ( and women volunteers ) could end up as collateral damage in these parents’ search for personal validation.

You just say unfortunately due to the recent SC ruling you are no longer able to let transgirls join. And sign post her to an alternative group.

Does the family also have a vegan cat?

We all know who is driving that child's identity don't we.

That poor child.

I would agree with you, @Octavia . Small children indulge in creative play and have fantastic imaginations. It's up to adults to allow for this, while helping them to navigate the real world. Just expecting others, including organisations, to pander to a child in this way is negligence.

Every guide, brownie and Rainbow leader in the country will have similar concerns right now.

The problem is Girlguiding itself. There will always be children at risk, children with difficult parents, etc. An organisation as big and experienced as GG should be completely on top of this, behind their staff, and ultimately, have girls' best interests at heart.

This is exactly why people are turning away from the organisations and they struggle so hard for volunteers. Who'd want to be put in this position and not feel that GG has their back? Worse, that they'll be vilified for trying to do the right thing?

I would write to the management and ask what to do.

Me too. Luckily not had to deal with it yet.

Of course you can say no if it’s a single sex group for girls only. Either that or you stop making it single sex, but that will mean other boys should be allowed to join or it would be discriminatory

Women volunteer more than men - but guiding struggles to get volunteers partly because of it's transgender policies. It's "safeguarding" is nothing like - you are not supposed to put your arm around a distressed child but a bloke in a dress can go tor residentials with them.

So your group is for girls. My beliefs are that biological girls and women should have their spaces protected if they need to be. If that is the case then you can state that, but I dont see why such tiny children need to be girls or boys. Later with older children, such groups can protect spaces where undressing happens or where the beliefs and culture is such that gender mixing is an issue. Maybe you are a little girls majorette, cheerleaders or dance group. In the Girl Guide movement the Brownies and Guides are for Girls only, Boys are not admitted but Girls may join Cubs and Scouts This woman is an activist trying it on. No 4 years old child is old enough to know anything about being transgender and it's not an issue that should arise with such young children. In a long teaching career its never arisen in all my time and I dont believe I am stereptyping but 'trans' doesnt come into it at all!. I would state this that you are an inclusive group for girls only and are not accommodating boys at this time.

I’m guessing it’s Rainbows. If you allow this child to join and you have girls from Muslim or Jewish families, you might have them leave. I agree this is a performative gesture, from a person who is seeking conflict.

It sounds like your issue is with guiding in general and you want it to admit boys and girls. At the moment it doesn't.
Do you think there should be any spaces that are girls/women only or boys/men only or would you mix up everything?
It is certainly not in the OP's remit to start admitting boys because you (and maybe others) are fine with all groups being mixed.

A 4 year old "transgender" child is a bit like a vegan cat: you know it's not the cat making that choice.

If it's a group for girls, then under the Equality Act, "sex" means biological sex. If you have a legitimate aim, to be achieved by proportionate means, then you can restrict the group to a single sex.

If someone wants a fight, don’t give it to them. Win it instead.

How sad your waiting list is so long, child can join Scouts cos that’s mixed, you’ve heard there are places. Block.

Exactly this.

I felt uncomfortable around boys when I was a little girl, I wasn’t used to them as other than my dad all my family and friend groups were all female. If a boy had been allowed to join brownies (rainbows didn’t exist yet when I was small) I’d have left.