Transgender 4 year old wanting to join girls only group

[Helpwithdivorce]

So I’ll preface this by saying im very much a live your life however you please as long as you’re not hurting anybody kind of person. However I run a group, which is just for girls aged 4-7.

I’ve had a request from a parent for their child to join. The child is 4 and the parent said they are transgender. Now here is my predicament, which may be rightly or wrongly.

Firstly I feel like this mother is just out to cause drama, there are other very similar mixed gender groups, there is no reason this child needs to join a group only for girls.

Secondly I simply do not believe that a 3/4 year old child knows that they are transgender. I feel this is being peddled by the mother, again feeding the drama.

What would you do? I really don’t want this mother in my group, but the group is ‘inclusive’ so I can’t say no you can’t join.
Currently I’ve just ignored the request.

Do you actually know the parent and child?

It sounds very far fetched tbh & wondering if its a request by a TRA or even feminist activist or even journalist 'fishing' for some sort of response to be outraged about.

Can you pass the request on to higher up in girl guiding & ask them to respond - they prob have a stock response ready with their standpoint.

That way it keeps you out of it if it does blow up & end up in the media etc.

I would contact girlguiding hq for advice

It actually sounds to me like some of the posts here from GC people, as though mum is trying to prove a point. There was one recently about someone’s husband trying to join the WI to see what they said. The fact the child doesn’t have a female name suggests they aren’t transgender at all.

A trans 4 year old? I’ve heard it all now

As others have already said, I'd be making a safeguarding referral for that child. Social transition is not a neutral act.

^This. I wish there was some way OP could anonymously report to SS.

No I don’t know the parent or child and I’m very wary that it could be someone attempting to join expecting a no so they can go to the media.

Ive looked up the address and it’s a legit address from what I can see but otherwise I don’t know anything about the family

Why can't you say they can't join?

Inclusive in what way? Either it's single sex or it isn't.

You can politely say it's for bio girls only and direct them to the mix sex groups of a similar type.

If there isn't really any meaningful reason that it is only for girls, for example it just so happens it's more popular with them, then maybe you could consider changing it to mixed sex?

But I wouldn't pander to or humour the concept a four year old can be transgender. I'd just ignore that part and take it that they were just asking about a boy.

Get some advice from EASS.
https://www.equalityadvisoryservice.com

Transgender is a protected characteristic under the Equality Act (2010). That way your response can be aligned with guidance from the EHRC advisory body in the event the Mum might be minded (hopefully not but you never know) to accuse you of prohibited conduct (discrimination).

Seems like your wait list is really long OP and their turn may never come round 😉

Because currently girlguiding says trans girls are welcome

@Runnersandtoms I agree with you. Research in sociology-linguistics where young children were recorded while at play shows that girls and boys use different language — girls tend to invite co-operative play with such phrases as “Let’s play etc”,
whereas boys are more competitive and try to take charge and direct their friends.
Fascinating.
Very similar to behaviour at board meetings

The trouble with saying 'it doesn't matter at this age' is that at some point he will be old enough for brownies and then guides...

Then you might not have a choice once they get to the top of the list?

I feel sure you are making many excellent points that I would wholeheartedly agree with if only I could understand what you are saying: Please can you explain your acronyms?

@Helpwithdivorce No I don’t know the parent or child and I’m very wary that it could be someone attempting to join expecting a no so they can go to the media.

This! ☝

Do not engage; do not respond; if eventually forced to respond just say your waiting list is long, so in the meantime they may wish to check with another group, or Squirrels instead ... (in this way, you have not said 'no' - which is probably what they are wanting). Play the long game.

Ah, ok, it's a guides group. I guess you've no choice but to accept them? But not push the narrative that they're female? It sounds like a bit of a minefield. It does seem completely preposterous for a person to brand their pre-school age child transgender.

If the mum has put Thomas is transgender could that mean that Thomas is actually a girl going by a boys name? Born Thomasina and mum is a twat but Thomas actually wants to join rainbows because Thomas is in fact a girl.

V confusing.

Could you just keep ignoring her? Don't tell her where her child is on the waiting list. Just say the group is full and you get back to her when it is her turn and then just never do.

I would let him join. There are girls that are cubs in my son Cubs group. I see no harm in it.

This. I think it’s a political activist trying to bring down your group and destroy it for the girls. So be very careful and cover your back.

The definition of girl has not changed though. People have attempted to confuse and mislead, but its not changed.

The law has ALWAYS been that sex is sex and you can not change sex. Sex is legally different to gender and gender transition. The Equality Act characteristic applicable is sex. Girlguiding say they are single sex. Whether they call female children 'blukins' or 'girls', is irrelevant because in law a girl remains a female child and sex matters - because it rest on the reasonable understanding of an average person to understand what a girl is in the absence of an explicit legal definition (as we've ultimately found out with the SC case).

The fact attempts to redefine what a girl is and the law has been misinterpreted and applied incorrectly by activists mangling language still does not redefine the word. It remains a clumsy attempt to undermine the law in a way that does not hold up to legal scrutiny.

When talking about for girls only, there is a reasonable expectation that this refers to sex and if girl guiding advertise themselves as single sex they need to still to this or they will become legally unstuck at this point.

If they say its for girls only but we operate a mixed sex policy and then exclude boys, they risk being done for discriminating against boys. If they say its for girls and then operate a mixed sex policy and include boys without properly informing parents, they risk being done for misleading parents and failing to uphold the girls rights in line with that because its a failure to allow parents to consent.

Although the child needs to be placed in the waiting list like every other child.

Unless the new Supreme Court rulings changes things. I’ll resign before accepting this though. Not because I have any dislike towards trans people. But because I don’t believe a parent should be pushing this on their child.

Even if I had a male child or female for that matter. Desperate to be the other sex I wouldn’t attempt to join them in single sex groups, especially when there is a mixed sex option available which is pretty much the same thing! She’s doing it to prove a point and I don’t like that at all

That's because cubs is mixed sex.
Rainbows is meant to be girls only.
Surely this isn't too hard to understand?