Transgender 4 year old wanting to join girls only group

[Helpwithdivorce]

So I’ll preface this by saying im very much a live your life however you please as long as you’re not hurting anybody kind of person. However I run a group, which is just for girls aged 4-7.

I’ve had a request from a parent for their child to join. The child is 4 and the parent said they are transgender. Now here is my predicament, which may be rightly or wrongly.

Firstly I feel like this mother is just out to cause drama, there are other very similar mixed gender groups, there is no reason this child needs to join a group only for girls.

Secondly I simply do not believe that a 3/4 year old child knows that they are transgender. I feel this is being peddled by the mother, again feeding the drama.

What would you do? I really don’t want this mother in my group, but the group is ‘inclusive’ so I can’t say no you can’t join.
Currently I’ve just ignored the request.

There is no such thing as a 'transgender child'. I'd simply say 'no.' The Supreme Court backs you up.

"Thank you for contacting me. I have placed your child on the waiting list, and will contact you in due course regarding availability."

That neither mentions the child's name or their gender, nor does it guarantee that a place will become available.

With any luck the child will soon decide that being a fire engine or a unicorn is much more fun.

No I don’t actually know. Obviously the child’s name isn’t Thomas. All I have is a request to join with the child’s name Thomas Smith. There is no box for sex because they are all meant to be girls and a note which says ‘Thomas is transgender’
But actually I don’t even care what sex this child is. I’m not paid for this and I don’t want this kind of parent in my life

How exactly have I miss understood the Law and the SC judgment?

Groups can be male or female, they cannot be female with a subset of males, or that becomes discriminatory to the other males.

You have misunderstood the ruling. It says that organisations are not obliged to include trans people in single-sex spaces (i.e. they can lawfully exclude trans people), but not that it is unlawful to include them.

It's not unlawful to include provided they formally change their service from single sex to mixed sex.

ONE of the reasons Girl Guiding remains single sex is to allow girls from cultures that do not allow them to mix with boys to take part. For this reason, I think I would try to encourage this child’s parent to take her to Squirrels, which is mixed sex, and where there will be no issue with the child identifying as a girl.

Although op did state it is a male child with a boy's name, I think pp would like to know how she knows this for sure, since all she's had is an email about it. The mother would need to have been crystal clear about this in her email, because simply using 'he/him', a male name, and saying the child is transgender does not make this clear at all.

OP, has the mother clearly said the child is biologically male?

Edited to add... Op has answered this while I was typing. So, no, it isn't clear at all.. She doesn't know.

Honestly Op I don't blame you.
I wouldn't want to have to explain trans-nonsense to little kids either.

GG are going to have to come out as mixed sex or go back to fully single sex. Sooner or later.

Kick the can down the road until they've made the decision.

But actually I don’t even care what sex this child is. I’m not paid for this and I don’t want this kind of parent in my life

It does make a difference in law.

The OP has said she doesn't know, because it isn't clear.

Do you have a safeguarding lead you can call for advice OP?

Four year old… Transgender?

It’s tricky though as each section feeds into the next, it’s nice for the girls as often they reconnect with older girls who were in rainbows/ brownies with them and she’d out. If you were to have mixed sec rainbows would only girls get to be brownies and boys would have to leave (which seems meaner somehow than a blanket ban ) or when do you draw the line ?

I’d be tempted to report someone to SS for transing a 4 year old.

No, I absolutely do not blame you, but surely the biological sex of this child does make a difference in how this is handled?

I find it weird that the mum would make a point of saying the child was trans, but still refer to the child by their “boy” name if they now see themselves as a girl. I’m definitely not wording this very well, but hopefully you get the gist.

Can you say the group is for biological female sex children only so could she clarify if Thomas is a born biological girl or boy?

Thing is, even small girls can already be socialised in particular ways that entrench passivity etc, so giving them a group that is separate from boys is a good idea. A small boy of four will already have imbibed some of the patriarchal expectations of males. I bet there’s research to show that even small boys speak more, interrupt more, expect to go first etc.

Thank you for your stance op: the GG policy of lying about sex us sadly why I don't trust them to let my children join.

I once knew someone with 4 sons, Where's Willy was a regular cry from them!

Social services is wholly captured on this stuff, along with the NHS and all our other institutions.

I don't know anything about guides but what is your organisations' stance on difficult parents? Can you refuse children if parents are difficult?

I would agree if I thought the SS weren’t so captured.

I agree with you.
Tell the parent that you can only accept girls.

Boys are not girls. Thomas is a boy. The end.

And if I were you, I'd die on this hill.

Female-only initiatives are unfair to boys!

Would you like to have a bash at explaining how? (Given that anybody can replicate the effort involved to set up a similar initiative for boys.)

When I was a young girl, I enjoyed horse riding and ballet. I also enjoyed climbing trees, driving go-karts and as I got older, motorcycles. I never once thought I was or wanted to be a boy - although in this day and age, undoubtedly my mother would have been encouraged to encourage me to think so.

What is the point of this story? Four is too young to have a definitive view on your gender. Lots of four year-olds can't even decide what they want for lunch! This sounds more like the mother is seeking attention and approval and to hell with everyone else.