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Taxes to rise to fund PIP 2

350 replies

Viviennemary · 28/06/2025 21:06

I saw the other thread was full. Still I look forward to the vote which is on Tuesday. Sky news called him two Tier Keir. Most unfair thing ever if this passes.

OP posts:
Ohthatsabitshit · 29/06/2025 21:46

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I think it would be a good thing if those with more gave a little more. We are discussing where tax should come from and where it should go, not random individuals slipping HMRC a fiver. Honestly think about what could help rather than getting all fighty. You do realise there are actual real human beings in desperate need don’t you.

Itallcomesdowntothis · 29/06/2025 21:47

PhilippaGeorgiou · 29/06/2025 14:53

I’ll pay more tax when I can have a say in where it goes.

You'll pay more taxes when you are told to pay more taxes. That is how it works.

But I think this is how most people feel.

I have no issue paying more tax for those who really need it - severely disabled people etc.

However with more than 1000 additional people claiming benefits every day and now 1 in 5 working age people are claiming some sort of benefit we can’t afford it. It’s not having no empathy it’s a fact. Our country can’t afford this. The economy is struggling etc. We cant afford it. Plus the NHS, education, roads, social services etc are in crisis.

So what gives? The people who are paying all the tax can’t continue to be taxed and taxed and taxed for those generational non workers. Work harder for less money and poorer services will only equal less people not working and paying tax.

Something needs to give. Those who really need PIP deserve more and those who continue to not work or contribute need to feel more pinch.

alexalisten · 29/06/2025 21:50

Itallcomesdowntothis · 29/06/2025 21:47

But I think this is how most people feel.

I have no issue paying more tax for those who really need it - severely disabled people etc.

However with more than 1000 additional people claiming benefits every day and now 1 in 5 working age people are claiming some sort of benefit we can’t afford it. It’s not having no empathy it’s a fact. Our country can’t afford this. The economy is struggling etc. We cant afford it. Plus the NHS, education, roads, social services etc are in crisis.

So what gives? The people who are paying all the tax can’t continue to be taxed and taxed and taxed for those generational non workers. Work harder for less money and poorer services will only equal less people not working and paying tax.

Something needs to give. Those who really need PIP deserve more and those who continue to not work or contribute need to feel more pinch.

A lot of that 1 in 5 will be people on universal credit maybe we need a serious conversation on limiting the amount of children people have that they cant afford.

MyNameIsX · 29/06/2025 21:50

Labour has delivered nothing and will continue to deliver nothing. Productivity is stagnant. People are incentivised to work less (to avoid high taxation) and instead claim benefits. The public sector is gridlocked and serves its own interests rather than those of the public.

Yet we were told only last summer that the adults were back in charge and things would change.

Nobody of sound mind will willingly accept any increase in taxation given the bunch of clowns currently in government.

It does not matter what its for - welfare, or otherwise.

RoseofRoses · 29/06/2025 21:51

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Fsads · 29/06/2025 21:51

PandoraSocks · 29/06/2025 21:08

Healthy food. A warm and heated home and basic utilities if you are too the point you cannot work

Benefits are not supplying even that standard of living. Why do you think we have food banks? Utilities are through the roof for everyone.

Do you live in the UK?

Edited

I do live in the UK. Obviously I sympathise with struggling people especially if they have mental or physical health issues.

I'm glad at least food banks are there to give people some food. No one should rely on them but thank god at least they are there so people don't go hungry.

MajesticWhine · 29/06/2025 21:54

labitee · 29/06/2025 21:27

I support a proposal of an annual 2% tax on wealth above £10 million. That means everyone with wealth below £10m is unaffected.

This 2% annual tax would affect around 20,000 people in the UK – or under 0.04% of the population. To reiterate, they would only pay the tax on their wealth above £10m.

One of the common criticisms of a wealth tax is that it would be impractical to collect.
This assumption is often based on historic wealth taxes in other countries.

In these examples, the threshold for the tax was often much much lower e.g. in the hundreds of thousands of pounds, or low millions.

This meant many more people were liable to pay it – making collecting the tax more cumbersome.

The wealth tax we propose would affect only 20,000 people, making administering it much, much easier for HMRC.

Like inheritance tax, it would involve a self-declaration of asset values by the tax payer, backed up by a compliance team at HMRC.
HMRC could also further develop registers of assets. This would help crack down on dirty money too.

Won’t rich people just leave?

Research suggests that between 7 and 17% of the potential revenue could be lost due to changes in behaviour, for example by moving abroad or trying to hide assets.

Even taking this potential behavioural change into account, the wealth tax proposed would still raise circa £24 billion a year. So much more than savings in benefit cuts.

Fraud is very low, almost zero.

PIP is for people that have already gone through a thorough process. It is to help will additional costs of their disability and is not a OOW or means tested benefit. Removal of it will NOT 'help people back into work'. It will also affect Carers Allowance payments.

Currently an estimated 184b a year is being saved by unpaid carers (another NHS). If they were forced to go back to work the costs would be passed onto Social Services, NHS etc.

The numbers just don't add up. An influx of disabled jobseekers competing with current non disabled jobseekers for a limited amount of available jobs. I think we can all see the issue here, employers would choose a 'box ready' worker as opposed to a disabled worker that, quite rightly, should have adjustments made for their disability.

The 'concessions' like the bill itself are abhorrent IMO. To say that if some has the same accident, with near identical affects before a certain date would be entitled to PIP and some after a date wouldn't? Also the government are being very 'shifty' as to whether this applies to children currently on DLA, then going onto PIP at 16.

I guess I would say I'm against it as a disabled parent of a disabled child. My husband (higher tax payer earner) family are also of the same opinion. However, if we as a society want a well funded functioning welfare system, it needs paying for. Otherwise, whats the point?

This welfare bill makes no ethical, moral or if you're not interested in those reasons economic sense IMO.

What does your research tell you about Norway? Didn’t their wealth tax result in less tax revenue overall?

alexalisten · 29/06/2025 21:55

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How many children do you have that my taxes are paying schooling and healthcare for. How much money does it cost this country every year for women to give birth. Or to feed other people's kids dinner and breakfasts everyday. Disabled people are not the biggest expense to this country

Itallcomesdowntothis · 29/06/2025 21:55

alexalisten · 29/06/2025 21:50

A lot of that 1 in 5 will be people on universal credit maybe we need a serious conversation on limiting the amount of children people have that they cant afford.

It’s a good point. PIP and UC are very different things.

Ohthatsabitshit · 29/06/2025 21:57

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No as I said earlier it’s what most people I know think too. Can I ask who YOU think should be paying for disabled people’s needs? If you went out tomorrow and became disabled an unable to work what support do you think you should be provided by the country you live in and have presumably paid taxes in all these years?

DrowningInSyrup · 29/06/2025 22:00

Kendodd · 29/06/2025 20:05

The social contract is well and truly broken already.
It's broken for low paid working people who can not get on in life anymore. They work all hours in crappy jobs that will never afford them even a basic standard of living or a decent home. And they they get blamed for their own poverty (because they work in a care home looking after your mum) and that they should have worked harder and got a better job. If they dare spend £3.50 on a takeaway coffee once a week, well, such extravagance is the reason they're so poor. They should have nothing.
These are the people society has well and truly failed.

Well said @kendodd

Fsads · 29/06/2025 22:03

Why is the benefits bill so much then and then growing?

Let's break it down. Are physically able people shirking work or not able to find work?

For disability pay - what is causing there to be an increase in people with health issues to the point they cannot work? Are people getting into accidents more? Are more people being born with genetic conditions?

Ohthatsabitshit · 29/06/2025 22:05

I think there are indeed more disabled people and more severely disabled people.

XenoBitch · 29/06/2025 22:05

Fsads · 29/06/2025 22:03

Why is the benefits bill so much then and then growing?

Let's break it down. Are physically able people shirking work or not able to find work?

For disability pay - what is causing there to be an increase in people with health issues to the point they cannot work? Are people getting into accidents more? Are more people being born with genetic conditions?

PIP is not an out of work benefit.
If the vast majority of people on PIP got a job, they would still be on PIP

alexalisten · 29/06/2025 22:07

Fsads · 29/06/2025 22:03

Why is the benefits bill so much then and then growing?

Let's break it down. Are physically able people shirking work or not able to find work?

For disability pay - what is causing there to be an increase in people with health issues to the point they cannot work? Are people getting into accidents more? Are more people being born with genetic conditions?

Who would have thought with a failing nhs and people on waiting lists for surgery for years and services shutting down left right and centre that more people would become more ill. I just cant see the connection 🙈

Helpmefindmysoul · 29/06/2025 22:28

Ohthatsabitshit · 29/06/2025 21:42

I too pay for an annual prescription certificate. It’s unbelievably cost effective and I’m sure, if like me you have ever googled the actual cost of your medication I’m sure you have seen just how much the country is supporting you. I too have a condition that is seen as a disability. I don’t qualify (or need) PIP as my needs are not at that level like very many people who are have a recognised disability.
I’m not sure how many people are leaving because they don’t want to be taxed, it’s a nuanced situation than that and high earners have always been more mobile.
Where does one draw the line? Well presumably for most civilised people it’s somewhere above starving the disabled, schools, social services and pensioners of the resources they need to have a safe and bearable life. We can do this if we want to. We have done harder things as a country.
I used to ”higher earning households” rather than “high earners” because many households consist of one high earner and one less high earner or two medium earners, these are households that I think can and should help the country and the people less fortunate and I explained the group who in my experience have an appetite for positive change.
As for not seeing the benefits you demonstrated clearly that you are oblivious to the benefits you receive, with your dismay at being asked to pay a for a annual prescription certificate, a benefit you appear to have completely missed in your rush to feel uncared for.

I don’t have any dismay for paying for the annual prescription certificate, as you will note that I said in another post it’s good value for money for the medication I receive. It’s not lost on me how much I am supported, as you think it may be as I have checked the cost of the treatment I receive. I also recognise I’m extremely fortunate to receive the care I do which I would not get under an insurance based healthcare based system.
It is not just higher earners wanting to leave, if you look at some threads (not on this platform) focussing on people wanting to leave the country it is anyone from individuals who are nail techs to construction workers to nurses to doctors. You name it and they want to leave. Now it might not be solely due to tax as you correctly state but could be highly assumed.
I have no issue with paying tax to support the neediest. Some are claiming on the thread people shouldn’t get luxuries with their PIP I don’t really care what people use it for because it’s.their entitlement. I’m simply saying blindly taxing isn’t the solution. Two medium earners may argue they are still struggling as they don’t get any support yet will be taxed more?
If I was oblivious to the benefits I receive then I too would have upped sticks and taken our higher earning household to an alternative country that doesn’t care about the vulnerable and focussed purely on our selfish selves.
Again great you and your cohort of friends and family are happy to pay more but there are many alternatives that could be considered.

gegs73 · 29/06/2025 22:30

I’m not particularly well paid so really don’t want to pay a lot more tax, DH is quite well paid so a bit more for him would be acceptable. DSs are just starting out with their careers and low paid for now, again they’re taxed enough and cost of living is so high it doesn’t seem fair. Add to that when DS1 earns over £28k, he’ll have an extra 10% ‘graduate tax’ slapped on him with his student loan. I pity the young.

Miley23 · 29/06/2025 22:31

Fsads · 29/06/2025 22:03

Why is the benefits bill so much then and then growing?

Let's break it down. Are physically able people shirking work or not able to find work?

For disability pay - what is causing there to be an increase in people with health issues to the point they cannot work? Are people getting into accidents more? Are more people being born with genetic conditions?

The charity i work for helps people complete PIP forms for over 50's. the vast majority we help with are for things like COPD, ME, Fibromyalgia and mental health/ anxiety and depression. Obviously can't comment on younger people as we only deal with over 50's. It does not seem to be people waiting for surgery. In our area I have had friends who have received knee replacements and major spinal surgery within a few months of going on wait lists.

Fsads · 29/06/2025 22:36

Miley23 · 29/06/2025 22:31

The charity i work for helps people complete PIP forms for over 50's. the vast majority we help with are for things like COPD, ME, Fibromyalgia and mental health/ anxiety and depression. Obviously can't comment on younger people as we only deal with over 50's. It does not seem to be people waiting for surgery. In our area I have had friends who have received knee replacements and major spinal surgery within a few months of going on wait lists.

Thank you for answering my question

alexalisten · 29/06/2025 22:39

A study found that over two-fifths of disability benefit claimants are on a waiting list for treatment.

Fsads · 29/06/2025 23:25

XenoBitch · 29/06/2025 21:40

They had to manage because they were not getting the payment.
It is not their fault that they had a backpayment... and it is not up to you how they spend it.

I have a right to be annoyed of course. Yes they had to manage, lots of us have things we have to deal with without begging the government for money. They had enough money from the max loan and the DSA. I for one am very happy that they've achieved their university result.

iwentjasonwaterfalls · 29/06/2025 23:37

Fsads · 29/06/2025 23:25

I have a right to be annoyed of course. Yes they had to manage, lots of us have things we have to deal with without begging the government for money. They had enough money from the max loan and the DSA. I for one am very happy that they've achieved their university result.

lots of us have things we have to deal with without begging the government for money

Delightful.

mintydoggyv · 29/06/2025 23:41

Viviennemary · 28/06/2025 21:06

I saw the other thread was full. Still I look forward to the vote which is on Tuesday. Sky news called him two Tier Keir. Most unfair thing ever if this passes.

Um what tax increases, let's say if you worked at the tax office there are no tax increases at all untill if any in November budget, we have had a u turn on winter fuel allowance, a semi climb down on p.i.p benifits and by the Autumn more to follow. There is a lot of hearsay in the press , but no more tax increases at all . Where that's come from one does not know ...What changes there may be , none or very few we don't know untill November. So what worries you

Fsads · 29/06/2025 23:50

XenoBitch · 29/06/2025 22:05

PIP is not an out of work benefit.
If the vast majority of people on PIP got a job, they would still be on PIP

And I'm asking why there's been an increase in the people who cannot work at all? Is it lifestyle, genetic or all the fault of the NHS

Vaxtable · 29/06/2025 23:57

Labour will simply bankrupt the country again. If Angela takes over the the country will be run by the unions so no hope at all

I would not wish to pay more tax, they can sort the government departments out, get rid of quangos, sort out the nhs which wastes so much money, and start taxing the large companies such as Amazon.