Thread 26 Starmer: Cats, Rebels and Orange Chaos

[DuncinToffee]

Previous thread https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5349605-thread-25-starmer-cheers-for-a-falling-out-among-thieves?page=40&reply=145224605

Thanks for the new thread @DuncinToffee . Lurking but still here in spirit.

A healthy party is one that has MPs who listens and is not afraid to make decisions on behalf of those who they represent.

Badenoch constantly ignores her party and goes off piste. Plus the vote is a week away. As any ful knows, a week is a long time in politics.

It's a reasoned amendment. Let's not forget.

Long-time Plaid voter here. I have mixed feelings about Labour although I was happier when Mark Drakeford was at the helm. I would much prefer a Labour-Plaid coalition, with a bit of Lib Dem thrown in for good measure.

Was thoroughly delighted when the Tories got kicked out of Wales last year. I honestly can't see Reform doing as well as they seem to think they will in the Senedd elections next year. Certainly not where I live. My little corner of north Wales is solid Plaid.

It’s not unravelling. There’s dissent over one area of policy. Don’t make it more than it is.

I fear for some of the Valleys constituencies which bought the Brexit lies. But I agree, I don’t think they are in as strong a position as they think. At least I hope they aren’t.

I’m talking about the optics of it. If the Government accepts the amendment it will be cutting its credibility into bits. It will be impotent.

If it rejects the amendment, it may lose or get close to crippling its majority less than a year into its existence. It does matter. Yes you can have a principled opposition to this policy, but that does not mean there is no wider effect politically.

Holiday cat.

I'm not sure where my vote is going in four years. I'm going to continue watching my MP to see where his votes go, writing to give my opinion, and seeing how he deals with his constituents.
The world will turn many times before I need to decide.

I'm hoping so too, maybe that's what's influencing my view rather than any solid evidence.

I don’t agree that accepting the amendment cuts its credibility to bits. It’s a democracy. Elected representatives are using their voice. A credible government listens to that.

Personally I'd happily see some more consensus politics.

However this isn't that. It's a frog helping a scorpion.

Also remember that electoral reform is still in the offing. All parties (except Reform) are on board for that.

Well it’s not being taken as that. It’s been presented as a “vote of confidence” by the Government, ie a vote of confidence in Keir Starmer. So his opponent see it correctly, imo, and they will exploit it.

Accepting the reasoned amendment is a mark of maturity, acceptance and a willingness to listen. A proper grown up government.

It will go to vote. The speaker is rarely swayed.

Badenoch will be long gone before Starmer when it comes to votes of confidence.

The Tories are notorious when it comes to back stabbing. Reform are not far behind.

Presented by whom? Because that’s rubbish. The only thing that would be a vote of no confidence in Starmer would be an actual vote of no confidence in Starmer, which won’t happen and wouldn’t succeed if it did.
I’m not pleased with everything he’s doing but this idea that unless a party leader is 100% right all the time and totally idolised by the party they should go needs to die with the Tory government who spawned it.

It it will definitely be selected, how could it not?

the vote of confidence line is the government’s line, incidentally

Doesn’t mean it’s not rubbish…
It’s to try to stop the rebellion. Personally I think they should just accept the amendment rather than going to a vote. It would look stronger.

It is still not an actual vote of (no) confidence.

No, but that is the line. Vote against, we take it you have no confidence in us.

And? Do you think Reeves and/or Starmer would stand down?

This isn't a unique situation. Osborne had to retreat over PIP changes in the face of a rebellion.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/mar/17/tory-rebels-osborne-disability-benefit-cuts-just-not-acceptable

The government might well yank the whole bill!

But no, I think what happens is you get added to Keir’s shit list. And he shows no signs of backing down. Honestly I have never seen anything like it. Apparently MPs are requesting not to attend the vote at all, to which the answer is no. So it really is about taking names, it seems

The bill deserves to be pulled.

I would like Kendall to be sacked. This is her baby.

Sorry if I am sounding a big belligerent. But I am furious about this. Labour has handled this terribly and make it look worse with every day that passes.

You seem to really want this to bring down the government, or at least the cabinet. What advantage do you see in that? What do you think would happen next?

Is pointing out the implications of something not allowed? I don’t want to bring down the Government, but I don’t want to have a sanitized conversation about what happens when there is conflict within Labour. Isn’t that part of politics?

Of course you can point out implications. It just felt a bit like you really want this to be more than it is. Back benchers disagree, there’s a rebellion, hopefully in this case they’ll be listened to as they are right. But I don’t think one of the implications will be Starmer going or any kind of confidence vote.

Liz Kendall looked seriously evil and like a school teacher telling people off a few months ago. I think this was during the first reading. I could see her true colours. And you're right. It is her baby.
What would it mean if you're put onto Keir Starmer's shit list?