Labour isn't working - Thread 4

[TheNuthatch]

A chat thread for those who don't like this Labour government.

Previous thread:
www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5333471-labour-isnt-working-thread-3

Yup, I remember in the infancy of push back on gender woo and how the word bigot would be used to silence and corral women into silence and it was an effective strategy for a while. Eventually the word was used so often in such outrageous circumstances that the word lost its potency and people were able to put it to one side and make their observations and opinions plain.

Labour seem to be on course to do the same thing with the 'far right' and 'bigot' tarring brush. And it will go the same way.

Meanwhile there are still bigots and there is still a far right but every time a reasonable and common opinion is filed under these labels - those who are actually illiberal and far right now have far more cover to fly under the radar.

I've just been reading an article about migrants being tear gassed in France yesterday. The pictures are horrific.

I'd like to know what Labour supporters think of that when they were so quick to condemn the Rwanda plan as cruel and in-humane.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/keir-starmer-french-emmanuel-macron-migration-people-b1233375.html

They know they should’ve kept the Rwanda plan. It was a deterrent and a humane option. They wasted a lot of tax payers money..,again. There’ll be no u turn there though.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/clyl5p2zd50o 🤔

The French police are not allowed to interfere once they're are at sea even floating close to the shore for so cslled safety reasons.

So they have to watch people probably about to drown and killed them in these dingy leaving a perfectly safe country
It's madness.

But that safe country doesn’t give them free homes/ cash etc.,Starmer needs to stop the uk tax payer funded benefits for economic migrants and those without documentation - there’ll will be fewer new arrivals in no time.

Yes this!
The Rwandan government also confirmed that they were in talks with the USA.
I have no idea if it would have worked, but surely it was worth a shot as it was already so far along. Better than tear gassing babies ffs.

Also this silent work on the L plates for pizza places and delivery places cash.

The money going through the black economy will be eye watering. None of it taxable of course.
It must cost the treasury billions.

I reckon, between the black market and people who are pulling their punch with regards to earnings to adapt to inflation blind tax bandings and punitive tipping points the treasury is missing billions upon billions through criminality, incompetence and stubborn ideology.

Yes I wonder too. Radio silence on mn so far.

Agree with everyone on Rwanda. It was obvious we’d be here.

There has also been violent there, violence we will inherent

Rwanda’s downfall was that it wasn’t just intended for offshore processing. If it had been, I don’t think there would have been the opposition to it.

That wouldn’t do anything. You’d just have the same numbers crossing and huge expense at using another location.

So apparently lammy is flying out to the USA to speak to Mark Rubio? Sound very serious Andy why the need to go there...

I’m not so sure. I think for many, the appeal of the UK is that they can disappear into the black market. Off shoring minimises this risk. And don’t forget the huge expense to the economy of the black market.

The black market in France runs to ten billion euros each year, what are the mechanisms through which we are making it easier to join?

Possibly the language barrier in France?

Im happy to admit I don’t know for sure - but it seems like the Rwanda discussion spiralled because it was a resettlement scheme.

Offshore processing would see such high numbers. Say if you have two thousand a week on planes somewhere. The system would be overwhelmed. Our grant rate is high enough to be a draw.

Rwanda was the deterrent, and another impact was people moving to ROI to avoid. If movement of people is what is after then voluntary movement due to a leaflet is much better than tear gassing everyone including children on beaches.

Starmer messed up and sold in smash the gangs at GE. The French beaches will become more volatile. I’m surprised they want to go along with that.

I have no idea why the discussion spiralled, you could be right. I hope those who went along with that are happy to see the images of migrants being tear gassed.

I know, it's pretty appalling.

I was also bemused that the French are quite capable of turning English shipping boats around if they are in contested waters, but seem utterly incapable of stopping dinghies from leaving their shores in shallow waters.

Posters were likely more focussed on Labour getting in and the helping whipping up opposition to it.

The absence of anything on the tear gassing shows the consideration now.

Not sure how the laws accommodate it tbf

As frustrating as it is to see French police just watching from the sand, French authorities have zero incentive to stop them from leaving France. I worry that we'll see even more deaths at sea if they start intervening in the water.

We need a plan to make the UK less appealing if we want the numbers to fall. Rwanda wasn't perfect, but it was better than smash the gangs and tear gas. I agree with Eastern, off shore processing will just create a very expensive conveyor belt which will quickly become overwhelmed.

Oh good, they're sending Lammy. What could possibly go wrong. I hope he remembers to pack an atlas.

It’s telling how excited Labour are about the 300m water change. What are they thinking?

Their careers mostly. The idea they want to be humane is for the birds.