Thread 25 Starmer - Cheers for a falling out among thieves

[DuncinToffee]

Previous thread

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5338688-thread-24-starmer-casting-the-net-wider?

Great news.

Lib Dems

“We have sent Agent Truss so deep undercover that Kemi Badenoch can’t even say if she is in the party anymore. Truly stunning work.”

Thanks for the new thread as always.
Cat tax enclosed of Basil (man and boy) 😁.

I miss the laugh emoji

And a handsome man he is, @Grumpyoldpersonwithcats

@bombastix "Haughty" is the word I have been looking for to sum up Kemi Badenoch. you have it spot on.
Also, am I the only one who finds her plummy voice just a bit too over egged?
It sets my teeth on edge.

Everything about her sets my teeth on edge. Horrible woman.

It’s difficult isn’t it? Tories promote women but most of them ate the worst women ever…Labour has less shit ones but doesn’t promote. Which is more feminist? Or misogynist?

She is a disaster area but she must be popular with members, not parliamentarians. I don’t know why the Conservatives thought would be brought in via her leadership. I don’t think they thought was something they needed to do.

Yer she’s made it worse. A leader for a party that enjoys the smell of its own farts, I fear.

Can’t fault the Tories on putting women in the driving seat. Four female leaders so far, more than Labour has ever done

And all dreadful.

She is a disaster area but she must be popular with members, not parliamentarians.

The thing is the Tory party is no (longer) representative of the overall UK. Meaning it's members will prefer more and more distilled fuckwits that the rest of the UK rejects. It's a downward spiral.

You don't get to be PM 3 times by being dreadful.

Really? You don’t think Thatcher was dreadful? Are you serious?

Exactly. It doesn’t really help when they are shit. Though I’ve more time for May than the others.

There are different et definitions of dreadful. Are they successful? Yes?are they good at climbing the greasy pole? Yes. Are they decent humans? Mostly no. Are they good at leading the country/party? Also no.

May would probably have been a perfectly competent and reasonable PM without the Brexit poison chalice. I ended up actually feeling sorry for her.

You don't have to agree with her views to accept that winning 3 elections in a row does separate her from Kemi Badenoch by universe.

And much as I detest the good lady, I have to admit there are some qualities she possessed that would have served either Boris or Rishi well. She would never have allowed the pantomime with Patel or Braverman to get as far as it did. And she would have told the ERG or whoever scared Dinky Dave Cameron into a referendum pledge to fuck off in no uncertain terms.

Dreadful woman. But skilled politician. And in a nod to previous debates I'm happy to admit sometimes the UK needs that over sincere principles. It's a dangerous world out there.

I agree actually @SerendipityJane
She was vile and wrong but I do think she believed that her ideas were best for the country, not just herself (Falklands aside, maybe, and that’s a fairly big exception). She also wouldn’t have tolerated pressure groups.

The vet who treated Tennyson does not seem to understand Tennyson at all. Or cater to Tennyson's whims.

Cat tax paid.

Part of the reason I hated Mrs Thatcher was her ability to get things done that I disagreed with.

The trouble is Tory leaders are elected by people like my mum who currently can't be convinced that my youngest wasn't born in 1963. I was born in 1959.
In fact, at the moment according to my mum, any significant event happened in 1963.

She was also much more of a Brexiteer than anyone on these boards. However she also wasn't an idiot. Hence ensuring the UK remained in the EEC/EC and kicking their (very reluctant) arses into creating the Single Market. Because right or wrong, she wanted a prosperous and successful UK.

And it was thanks to her - again personal beliefs, but following the science - that the UK led the way in AIDS prevention.

As regulars have repeatedly tried to point out, these threads aren't an exercise in Labour:good/AllElseBad". If people want a biased discussion, then Question Time is still on air, I believe.

There are plenty of notable people in history who have said that you don't need to agree with your enemy to admire them.

Thatcher was a skilled leader. Badenoch is not: she’s not announced a policy today on leaving the ECHR but instead she’s going to consult lawyers.

Margaret Thatcher did not say that; I’m sure she did so, but she made herself look decisive. Badenoch could have commissioned this, kept it quiet, and then started to use it at PMQs. Much better profile

Badenoch is timid. She doesn’t decide or lead. Yes she may be haughty but it doesn’t hide her weakness.

I too think history may be kinder to May than at the time.