Thread 25 Starmer - Cheers for a falling out among thieves

[DuncinToffee]

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https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5338688-thread-24-starmer-casting-the-net-wider?

Nothing anyone can say will convince me Thatcher was anything but dreadful. We’re still paying the price of her policies. We don’t make anything, the housing crisis has its roots in her hatred of social housing and our shit public services are thanks to her obsession with privatisation aka selling off the family silver. Appalling woman who damaged the country beyond measure.

Badenoch hasn't yet won the election that Thatcher did, so comparisons are moot anyway.

Absolutely. Wrong at every step. Awful.
But also (unfortunately in the circumstances) a good leader.

All of which can be said of Badenoch were she to achieve power. Which she won't.

Hence at least one difference 😀

The thing with Thatcher is that she was competent. That is a quality the Lettuce and Saint Kemi conspicuously lacked. Theresa May was better than either but was handed a poisoned chalice; however, I will never forgive her for her 'citizens of nowhere' comment and for the 'foreigners go home' vans so she gets no sympathy from me.

If Margaret Thatcher had been Prime Minister when the pandemic started there would have been no Downing Street parties and at least 20,000 fewer people dead. People would have respected social distancing more as well I expect.

None of that could be said of Badenoch because you can’t destroy something that already been destroyed. As far as I’m concerned there’s a special corner of hell reserved for Thatcher. I became irrational with rage at the mere thought of her.

The thing with Thatcher is that she was competent.

And listened to and followed advice. Even if she vehemently disagreed with it. As noted, the AIDS programme.

Totally agree. On the subject of Thatcher. I was at university when she was first voted into power. I was shocked when one of my contemporaries declared she was voting for her. This was in Glasgow. I couldn’t relate to MT. She seemed to represent England. I never voted for her or Tony Blair. I don’t know what that says about me.

Yes Thatcher was competent, frighteningly so and very effective. She totally floored her opposition by being like that - they were left with ineffectual stuff about how wrong she was.

Really effective politicians make it look like they can instantly do things, it marks them out from others. But invariably they have done a huge amount of planning to get there. Then they announce.

Starmer has done that with these trade deals, plan, schedule, announce. Now he’s a way from being in the Thatcher league, but if he keeps doing that, it’s good leadership imo.

@bombastix I've often thought that the British don't understand or appreciate competence - instead they prioritise style over substance. That happens both in their politicians and in other areas, such as the way people dress at work, or the national obsession with super strict school uniform. It's a real national character flaw.

😳 You clearly weren’t in 60s and 70s Britain. Wilson Heath Callaghan and Kinnock

It’s a recent development in many ways - though it’s true Thatcher had to lower the pitch of her voice to be taken seriously. Generally though the personality cults are more recent. Post Cameron.

May was hampered by the Conservative fringe groups. The party was fractured (because Brexit was always a shit idea). Johnson/ERG were in full swing. brexit purity etc. Johnson didn't want her to succeed for obvious reasons and saw his chance and the ERG wouldn't back anything less than a hard Brexit.

The only way she could have succeeded was to rely upon Lab/LibDem/SNP votes to get her deal through and in so doing lose control of her party altogether. Which she did anyway.
So it was all for nothing.

In a different time she may have made a competent PM.

(havent forgotten citizens of nowhere either - nice to know wanting the country to be economically stable made me unpatriotic).

and Major?

Major was 90s. A very much underrated PM in my view. He did most of the heavy lifting on the Good Friday agreement and Blair got the credit. Oh and @derxa, Kinnock was never PM.

Yes. The cult politicians in my lifetime were Thatcher Blair Nick Clegg Johnson and Corbyn. The rest have mainly been dull earnest people in terrible suits.

That’s great news pointy

chev sorry things are tough

Nope. His consultant said he qualifies for one. We did pay for it to have a purple frame though!!!!

I think you can see that the relative duffers that the Conservatives have chosen from Johnson onwards. None of those choices by the members seems to have taken into account the need for it.

This was a party that claimed to be born to rule. Now they look stupid. That is quite a shock to me because really for such a long time, the Tories really did claim a lot of high quality people, and very clever ones at that to work for them. I do not think that can be said now.

I honestly believe they’ve bought her in to be shit.

So a year out form the next GE they can bring in Jenrick their preferred candidate with a load of policies to show the party have changed.

I’m meaning politicians in general. Poor old Neil was done for when he fell over on the beach and did his embarrassing chant at a party conference.

What chant was that @derxa?

I agree.

was chatting to a friend yesterday and said as much as I disagreed with 90% of what Thatcher did (in hindsight because I was a child and couldn't vote - don’t think I was even born when she first got in!) and he’ll would freeze over before I found myself agreeing with Farage - the advantage they have and problem we have is they are good communicators and also stick to their morals.

Thats why Farage is dangerous. He knows how to get people to listen to what he’s saying without actually hearing him - iyswim?

He started yelling ‘We’re alright!’ for some unknown reason. I felt a bit sorry for him because the conference audience didn’t know how to respond.