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Original poster

Nicola Packer case (trigger warning) late termination at 26 weeks.

119 replies

Nicolapack · 31/05/2025 08:21

I have just listened to the File on 4 podcast about this lady. She ordered abortion pills online during the pandemic. She then had a 26 week old stillborn baby. She hadn't realised that her pregnancy was so advanced when she took the pills. She went to hospital for medical treatment taking the baby with her and the nurses called the police.
File on 4 stated that the medical staff were under no obligation to call the police in this instance.
She was later put through the hell of a court case as they were trying to claim that she acted deliberately and knew her pregnancy was advanced when she took the pills. She was later found not guilty of knowingly terminating a pregnancy over 24 weeks.
I can't help thinking that the nurses should not have breached confidentiality rules by calling the police in the first place. The File on 4 podcast stated the nurses were certainly not required to do so. I cannot help but think that they should be held to account for their actions in this instance. It doesn't seem right that details of this person's medical care were passed to the police without this lady's knowledge or consent.

OP posts:
EleanorReally · 31/05/2025 08:22

what country was this in?

oh i have just googled

OverlyFragrant · 31/05/2025 08:23

I get the impression the midwife was wrongly advised by her supervisor about her legal obligations

Original poster
Nicolapack · 31/05/2025 08:23

UK

OP posts:
Guavafish1 · 31/05/2025 08:24

You’re correct …. I think the doctor should have informed this police.

Original poster
Nicolapack · 31/05/2025 08:24

OverlyFragrant · 31/05/2025 08:23

I get the impression the midwife was wrongly advised by her supervisor about her legal obligations

I can well imagine this happening having worked for the NHS myself.

OP posts:
Reallybadidea · 31/05/2025 08:24

I listened to it yesterday and had the same thoughts. The midwives reassured her that they needed to know what she'd done for her own benefit and then called the police when there was no legal obligation to do so. They didn't act in her best interests and breached her confidentiality. I hope she complains to the NMC but I suspect that she just wants it all to be over now.

HeySugarSugar · 31/05/2025 08:25

This is such an incredibly sad case - I think the fact that the police felt uncomfortable about it speaks volumes. Desperately traumatic for her 😢.

Reallybadidea · 31/05/2025 08:25

Guavafish1 · 31/05/2025 08:24

You’re correct …. I think the doctor should have informed this police.

Why? There was no need to understand UK law and it breaches her confidentiality.

Whiteflowerscreed · 31/05/2025 08:27

I wouldn’t be buying that someone 24 weeks pregnant mistakenly thought they were under 10 weeks unless they were in coma or had a full lobotomy so I can see how medics thought she was aware.
ive just had dc3 and the difference in how your body is between 6 weeks vs 24 weeks is VAST. So yeah I totally understand why the medics acted as they did!!!

Original poster
Nicolapack · 31/05/2025 08:27

Guavafish1 · 31/05/2025 08:24

You’re correct …. I think the doctor should have informed this police.

Presumably the Doctor should also keep patient records confidential unless. obliged to reveal information to police.

OP posts:
Original poster
Nicolapack · 31/05/2025 08:28

Whiteflowerscreed · 31/05/2025 08:27

I wouldn’t be buying that someone 24 weeks pregnant mistakenly thought they were under 10 weeks unless they were in coma or had a full lobotomy so I can see how medics thought she was aware.
ive just had dc3 and the difference in how your body is between 6 weeks vs 24 weeks is VAST. So yeah I totally understand why the medics acted as they did!!!

Edited

The jury who heard the case believed her account.

OP posts:
Reallybadidea · 31/05/2025 08:28

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

MyUmberSeal · 31/05/2025 08:29

Whiteflowerscreed · 31/05/2025 08:27

I wouldn’t be buying that someone 24 weeks pregnant mistakenly thought they were under 10 weeks unless they were in coma or had a full lobotomy so I can see how medics thought she was aware.
ive just had dc3 and the difference in how your body is between 6 weeks vs 24 weeks is VAST. So yeah I totally understand why the medics acted as they did!!!

Edited

Thankfully the jury didn’t agree.

Reallybadidea · 31/05/2025 08:30

Whiteflowerscreed · 31/05/2025 08:27

I wouldn’t be buying that someone 24 weeks pregnant mistakenly thought they were under 10 weeks unless they were in coma or had a full lobotomy so I can see how medics thought she was aware.
ive just had dc3 and the difference in how your body is between 6 weeks vs 24 weeks is VAST. So yeah I totally understand why the medics acted as they did!!!

Edited

Why don't you listen to the podcast mentioned before forming a judgement? I actually don't think it matters whether she knew her correct gestation or not, prosecuting her was inappropriate and the way they gathered the evidence and presented it in court deceitful and cruel

Original poster
Nicolapack · 31/05/2025 08:30

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

That is awful to hear.

OP posts:
Saucery · 31/05/2025 08:31

Whiteflowerscreed · 31/05/2025 08:27

I wouldn’t be buying that someone 24 weeks pregnant mistakenly thought they were under 10 weeks unless they were in coma or had a full lobotomy so I can see how medics thought she was aware.
ive just had dc3 and the difference in how your body is between 6 weeks vs 24 weeks is VAST. So yeah I totally understand why the medics acted as they did!!!

Edited

Not every woman’s body will be the same, so it’s a good job the jury didn’t take this incredibly narrow view.

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 31/05/2025 08:32

Whiteflowerscreed · 31/05/2025 08:27

I wouldn’t be buying that someone 24 weeks pregnant mistakenly thought they were under 10 weeks unless they were in coma or had a full lobotomy so I can see how medics thought she was aware.
ive just had dc3 and the difference in how your body is between 6 weeks vs 24 weeks is VAST. So yeah I totally understand why the medics acted as they did!!!

Edited

I’ve never understood the odd case I’ve read about, where someone goes into labour (full term) and insists that they had no idea that they were pregnant.

Even if someone is seriously obese, you’d think they might realise that ‘something’ in there isn’t just fat! And what about the baby’s movements? Which are usually easily felt from about 20 weeks.

RhaenysRocks · 31/05/2025 08:32

Whiteflowerscreed · 31/05/2025 08:27

I wouldn’t be buying that someone 24 weeks pregnant mistakenly thought they were under 10 weeks unless they were in coma or had a full lobotomy so I can see how medics thought she was aware.
ive just had dc3 and the difference in how your body is between 6 weeks vs 24 weeks is VAST. So yeah I totally understand why the medics acted as they did!!!

Edited

I actually know someone personally who did not know they were pregnant until the labour began. Small baby, positioned back to back, she's not a small woman. Irregular periods anyway, didn't really keep track. Having had two myself I wouldn't have believed it but it does happen. I listened to the podcast and did get the impression that NP wasn't necessarily the most together person, certainly at the time. It's too easy to just assume that our experience is everyone's. Just because you or I might have definitely known by 3-4 weeks gestation, doesn't mean it never happens that someone else isn't aware.

Whiteflowerscreed · 31/05/2025 08:34

RhaenysRocks · 31/05/2025 08:32

I actually know someone personally who did not know they were pregnant until the labour began. Small baby, positioned back to back, she's not a small woman. Irregular periods anyway, didn't really keep track. Having had two myself I wouldn't have believed it but it does happen. I listened to the podcast and did get the impression that NP wasn't necessarily the most together person, certainly at the time. It's too easy to just assume that our experience is everyone's. Just because you or I might have definitely known by 3-4 weeks gestation, doesn't mean it never happens that someone else isn't aware.

Show quote history

I wouldn’t have known by 3-4 weeks gestation but I sure as hell would have known after 20 weeks…

RhaenysRocks · 31/05/2025 08:35

Whiteflowerscreed · 31/05/2025 08:34

I wouldn’t have known by 3-4 weeks gestation but I sure as hell would have known after 20 weeks…

Show quote history

But that's you. Not her. Just because you can't imagine it doesn't mean it can't happen.

Whiteflowerscreed · 31/05/2025 08:35

Saucery · 31/05/2025 08:31

Not every woman’s body will be the same, so it’s a good job the jury didn’t take this incredibly narrow view.

Show quote history

Well actually growing a baby IS the same science in every single woman’s body. It’s biology. You don’t get to identify with how you want your pregnancy to progress.

icebearforpresident · 31/05/2025 08:36

I haven’t heard the File on 4 episode but read an article, possibly in The Guardian, that the NMC are investigating the midwife who reported her.

I donate every month to BPAS and they run regular campaigns about issues like this one. They have a draft email you just need to add your name to and they send it straight to your MP.

bpas-campaigns.org/?fbclid=PAQ0xDSwKnkF9leHRuA2FlbQIxMQABpxsP-_SIYgpN26ql78A66lxeEugeHesiu5K78MIElSA6KKPDataTKjSX0ht2_aem_JaWAmay2eS9sUZLkNdlsOA

Original poster
Nicolapack · 31/05/2025 08:36

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 31/05/2025 08:32

I’ve never understood the odd case I’ve read about, where someone goes into labour (full term) and insists that they had no idea that they were pregnant.

Even if someone is seriously obese, you’d think they might realise that ‘something’ in there isn’t just fat! And what about the baby’s movements? Which are usually easily felt from about 20 weeks.

Show quote history

I personally did not feel baby movements in either of my pregnancies. Gave birth to two healthy babies.

OP posts:
Viviennemary · 31/05/2025 08:37

I wouldn't be sure her story was truthful either. If a suspected crime took place then it's right the police should have be called. Horrific.

Original poster
Nicolapack · 31/05/2025 08:37

icebearforpresident · 31/05/2025 08:36

I haven’t heard the File on 4 episode but read an article, possibly in The Guardian, that the NMC are investigating the midwife who reported her.

I donate every month to BPAS and they run regular campaigns about issues like this one. They have a draft email you just need to add your name to and they send it straight to your MP.

bpas-campaigns.org/?fbclid=PAQ0xDSwKnkF9leHRuA2FlbQIxMQABpxsP-_SIYgpN26ql78A66lxeEugeHesiu5K78MIElSA6KKPDataTKjSX0ht2_aem_JaWAmay2eS9sUZLkNdlsOA

Thank you for this.

OP posts: