Why do our kids hate secondary school?

[noblegiraffe]

Together with the news from PISA that our teens are the unhappiest in Europe, new research shows that engagement and enjoyment of school falls off a cliff once kids leave primary and start secondary.

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/revealed-the-school-pupils-who-disengage-during-year-7-dip/

https://www.thedeveloperlive.co.uk/opinion/opinion/why-do-uk-teens-have-among-the-lowest-life-satisfaction-in-the-oecd

"It found that while engagement declines through school “in almost every country”, the magnitude “is more pronounced in England”, suggesting disengagement is not just a symptom of age “but something atypical” that is happening in England.

There has been lots and lots of discussion about the impact that social media is having on teen mental health - what about the impact of having to go to secondary schools that they clearly don't like?

Too much pressure. A curriculum designed only for academic, high achieving pupils. Too much emphasis on rules and punishments for minor offences like forgetting a pencil yet bullying seems to not be clamped down on like it should.

Larger and larger schools in buildings designed for a much smaller number of students. League tables being more important than wellbeing.

That's just a start from my experience.

They do a lot of testing at secondary - it seems like they have an assessment every couple of weeks in some subjects. My children have not really minded secondary though, I wouldn't have said they were unhappy there.

Because they are dog eat dog jungle environments. Anyone who has tried and failed to get schools to address obvious bullying issues knows this. In between our children being frightened for their own safety or witnessing the abuse of others they are being expected to learn algebra and chemistry. Then if course they end up on adhd medication with anxiety disorders because you can’t learn complex things in survival mode

Because secondary schools are quite intimidating environments. General behaviour is poor.
Because the curriculum is too abstract and difficult.
Because they have they have too many tests and feel like they’re failing all the time
Because teachers and support staff are overstretched and overwhelmed

I wonder if it’s the same in the counties with the middle school system ? That sounds like a gentler way to go up the years rather than the massive year 6 to year 7 gap elsewhere in England.

I think there is a lot going on.

Teachers are stressed and not enjoying thier jobs.

Resources are scarce so subjects have to find cheaper and cheaper ways of getting the same outcome. Which is fine educationally, but how boring is DT or art if you can't use lots of different materials in your projects, or science with fewer experiments.

Social time is cut as staffing lunch hours and afternoon breaks is impossible.

The gcses are too content heavy in some subjects so make it a race to get everything covered.

Years 7,8 and 9 get ignored as that key stage isn't the 'important' one. So they get the weaker teachers, or cover to make sure gcse classes get through.

The progress 8 /attainment 8 doesn't include enough vocational options and vocational offers tare cut as difficult /expendive to deliver.

Not all the problems come from school

Yeah I was thinking this. In the country where we are, primary school goes from age 6-15. Secondary school (which one you go to and how many years you spend there) then depends how academic or vocational you are at that stage. I suppose it means all the puberty and most of the bullying stuff is dealt with in the middle of primary school, instead of it hitting at the same time as having to change school.

It’s shit.

to some extent it’s shit everywhere - as children do through puberty and start working out who they are the social exclusion and worry ratchets up everywhere.

see every American high school movie ever.

English schools are I think worse at least partly because we do two sets of exams (gcse and a level) and a fair few kids go into GCSEs knowing that they matter and they won’t do well. It’s a combination of high stakes exams and lack of alternative.

btecs are better. A schooling system that could allow teens to feel like successes even if they can’t manage GCSEs would be better.

Something is obviously badly wrong, but I don’t think it’s fair to lay all the blame solely on the educational system. Year 7 is also the age that most kids get access to social media, and throw the start of puberty into the mix and it’s a recipe for disaster. I wish the powers that be would stop hand wringing and take some firm action because our children are suffering and it cannot continue.

Interesting that the engagement figure rises slightly in Y11 then when they have the most stressful exams. Our have two sets of mocks and then the real things.

I agree that there’s too many tests. Not many developed countries make their 16 year olds do loads of tests like we do for GCSE. English, maths and science is understandable and would help the kids who go into work or vocational courses as well but studying some subjects without exams would help the stress levels.

A radio programme spoke to a headmaster where phones were banned - the noise in the playground went from nothing to v loud as they all chatted and laughed.

No, but our kids have, according to PISA, the lowest life satisfaction score in Europe. They have puberty and phones in other countries.

And the school engagement research shows that England is also out of step with other countries.

For dd it was the constant testing even though she is very able. Inconsistency among teaching staff, sometimes petty rules for no obvious reason other than to have something else to police and to give d a reason to be anxious over. She dropped out in year 9, part time in year 8, lots of absence in year 7 after thriving in Primary.
Moved to independent specialist small, no uniform, few rules that were democratically agreed and thrived again.

I wonder if kids in the middle school system end up with social media later because many people give kids smartphones for year 7 (homework apps, bus passes stored on there ) ?

Because we are increasingly trying to fit square pegs into rounds holes in a 1 size fits all system.
We need a wider range of school types (technical, vocational, grammars etc) to find best fit for each individual child.
But that takes money + political will. Sadly we currently have a government hell bent on 1 size fits all and with proposed SEND cutbacks, this situation is only going to get worse.

DD loves school but it's an independent so therefore we must be punished! All kids should be miserable in state comprehensive schools instead.

Too much testing, pressure. I went to a middle school & moved to high school for yr 9 & like that system.

https://www.euronews.com/next/2024/12/29/which-countries-in-europe-have-banned-or-want-to-restrict-smartphones-in-schools

Some countries have banned phones at school

Lots of reasons…too many rules, pressure to conform, too many children in a class, work not appropriate, boring curriculum, rigid timetable, no space to put things( having to carry everything around all day) bad behaviour ( though that’s always been an issue) . I’m sure there’s more I haven’t thought of!

I think all the GCSE pressure and exams comes to early. Prefer the Irish system in that regard.

Too much pressure. A curriculum designed only for academic, high achieving pupils. Too much emphasis on rules

Completely agree. As someone who had academic, high achieving kids-they did well, but still really hated secondary school!

I loved school & 6th form, some of the best years of my life which apparently is unusual. My dc are currently very happy but they are probably in a bit of a bubble.

I completely agree. The purpose of secondary schools seem to be preparing kids for uni via GCSEs and A-levels. Pupils would be happier in a system with vocational schools etc but as you say it takes money and political will to go against the people who will say that they write kids off or whatever.

My eldest DC absolutely loved primary school and hated secondary. It was so sad...I remember him saying "I used to love learning". I think one problem is schools are so strict nowadays. I understand why they are to an extent but there just seems to be such an unforgiving culture in schools nowadays. Kids terrified of making a mistake. As well as that not enough sports and creativity.... it is so unnatural to expect teens to sit still and be quiet for hours and hours on end.

Uncomfortable and impractical uniform. No one needs ties or a shirt amd office shoes. Let them wear jeans and a polo shirt or hoodie. Trainers are warmer and more suitable for walking to school in Shorts all year round if they run warm. Stop trying to emulate substandard schools like Eton.

Group changing for PE when going through puberty. Nope. Should be separate changing, cosy PE kit and no showers. PE to be streamed and more interesting. And better taught.

No detentions for forgetting stationery.