Why do our kids hate secondary school?

[noblegiraffe]

Together with the news from PISA that our teens are the unhappiest in Europe, new research shows that engagement and enjoyment of school falls off a cliff once kids leave primary and start secondary.

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/revealed-the-school-pupils-who-disengage-during-year-7-dip/

https://www.thedeveloperlive.co.uk/opinion/opinion/why-do-uk-teens-have-among-the-lowest-life-satisfaction-in-the-oecd

"It found that while engagement declines through school “in almost every country”, the magnitude “is more pronounced in England”, suggesting disengagement is not just a symptom of age “but something atypical” that is happening in England.

There has been lots and lots of discussion about the impact that social media is having on teen mental health - what about the impact of having to go to secondary schools that they clearly don't like?

Too much emphasis on rules

The rules they emphasis are things like uniform which is strangely absent in many other countries.

My kids went to Sixth Form and had so many pointless conversations like whether the smart trousers they were wearing were jeans or not.

The vast majority of schools in England have already banned phones.

No sense of autonomy
No real relationship with teachers
Bullying
pointless rules about uniforms
Boring curriculum that is also way behind current tech
Sexual harassment
Feeling unsafe in some cases knife crime and so on.
Plus
Test test test
No real hope for the future
Uni is too expensive
Good jobs are becoming elusive
Climate change
and AI

I'd hate to be a teen right now.

Agree about uniform. I remember in his first week at secondary school, ds coming home and removing his blazer as soon as he walked in declaring he couldn't take it anymore...i think there should be uniform but something more comfortable and practical. The idea that it gets them ready for the world of work is ridiculously dated . He sees his dad and other family members all dressed casually for working in offices...

I think part of it is that they have to interact with too many teachers. They go from primary school, where the class teachers know them, and know the classroom dynamic, to secondary where they have different teachers for each subject, sometimes several just for one subject. Form teachers. Supply teachers. No one really gets to know them until several years in.

The teachers have to impose the school rules, but varying degree of consistency, and they also have the risk of being pulled up by a random member of slt walking by.

It's just overwhelming for them, so they either give up and rebel, or become very anxious if they try and keep everyone happy. And lots slip through the cracks.

Ridiculous rules, dull dry curriculum( thanks Gove),uniform, enforcement of certain GCSE subjects, awful buildings, awful SEND provision, dreadful pressurised system ….

I don’t see why secondary students can’t wear polos and sweatshirts like at primary school. My kids were very jealous of the secondaries that allowed plain black trainers because they were a tie, blazer and shoes that can be polished school.

Secondary school I work in starts at year 9, they are much readier and the atmosphere is less intimidating for them. Plus they have got used to having subject teachers in year 7/8 of middle school. I don't know why this system isn't more widespread (well, I do, the expense).

Not convinced that blazers are the reason for our kids being the unhappiest in Europe tbh. School kids have been wearing blazers for decades.

The focus is so much on getting grades and passing Ofsted.
There is not enough direction to do fun stuff. I think primary builds on early years with learning through play but secondary schools need to focus on social development too, opportunities for talking to each other, group work, trips, clubs...but done meaningfully.

I think having a timetable of loads of subjects formatted into 25 one hour slots is also mad...just as you get settled you then up and move through packed corridors...5-6 times a day.

In most countries they are brought up to not question education, in the U.K. we allow our dc more free will

Very interesting read. My DD yr 7 (Autistic) hates secondary.

• too many fights, bullying, foul language
• noisy classes, very overwhelming
• very short breaks, not a proper lunch break with massive queue to canteen (where bullying seems to take place)
• foul language in classes which staff seem to be unable to control

-lots of tests
-arbitrary rules and punishment for things like forgetting planner

Harsh even for NT kids! I find it bizarre that our kids are made to wear uniform, have short stressed lunches and have misogynistic slurs thrown at them. Not many jobs in adulthood would accept this. The school system is outdated and needs a massive reform.

DD has low attendance because she is so overwhelmed by the environment. I wish I could send her to a smaller lore nurturing school but no options locally.

This is a MC area btw. Dread to think what some schools are like. Feel so sorry for teachers and don't blame them for leaving. They are set up to fail with no resources or support.

I agree middle school would be a better transition .

I also think it's madness to send kids to school in uniform at 4 years old but that's another thread.

Oh, and being stuck in a class for a double lesson for 1hr 45 minutes. No chance to stretch legs or go to the toilet.

I've never worked in an office that would dare try and go for over an hour in a meeting without a quick comfort break. Teens have to sit there too hot or cold, no air con and expected to learn without a quick break.

I don't know why on earth schools allow phones. It seems completely counterintuitive - the most distracting thing possible, in the hands of teenagers during the school day? Why on earth would anyone agree to that?

I appreciate many schools use them for homework apps etc, but how about we just... don't? It seems such an easy win.

I saw this and it doesn't surprise me. They go from a small more personal experience at primary to some huge often very ugly shoddy 70s build stuffed with hundreds off huge students everywhere.
It's overwhelming, frightening and as we know many are there without even knowing how to read properly and do basic maths
Their self esteem is low and damaged. Further impacted by many having undiagnosed sen that may not be extreme but which impacts them enough

Teachers under stress who see an endless conveyor belt of dc before them to drum information into and process out like sausage meat cans. They are not taught sen they can't manage the different needs in the class or cope with poor behaviours.

Students feel it's an impersonal horrible experience that's beyond boring and let's face it many are mediocre and struggling. But when they fall behind they can't stop the teacher has to keep charging forward.
So they just fall behind. Become a disengaged bored they need stimulation so mess about
Yes to stupid uncomfortable school shoes that are either too expensive and crap or too cheap and plastic.Let them wear black trainers!!

What I would be interested in however is the same stats for private schools

I hated school. They are just horrible places! Enormous prisons full of screaming maniacs hitting you and shouting at you or droning on about absolutely nothing. Then more bells and screaming and trudging from room to room for no reason. Just trudging around a nightmare day after day as loud noises blare in your face and lights flicker, to no purpose whatsoever.

I can't understand how anyone could ever enjoy them. They seem designed specifically for torture. I can't even grasp what they were going for.

All I wanted was to be left alone to read my book or climb a tree. I liked things like maths and philosophy and swimming - obviously nothing like that was available. We did absolutely fuck all, except take drugs, and then we left. A bewildering stretch of time in my life, best forgotten.

@LavenderBlue19 it's beyond pathetic the government needs to get a grip on it and totally ban on the school day.

If I was a teacher then policing uniform would make me feel 🤯 My kids school is one of the “ask permission to take off your blazer” schools until May half term when they wear PE kit until July but it must be hot, uncomfortable and smelly in classrooms thanks to the material that they are made of.

The current obsession with restricting toilet access will be increasing pupil anxiety. My child with medical needs had a toilet pass but I doubt that L girls are granted one for period days.

Why do you think it is @noblegiraffe?

I would be interested to see the difference in per capita funding for secondary education in other countries (haven't read the article so apologies if this is included or already accounted for in the study results).

Would also be interested to hear from others who have experience of other European school systems and how they compare to here in terms of strictness, curriculum, behaviour etc.

My two have seemed pretty happy at school, although DS1 engagement certainly dropped off from year 9 I'd say.

My daughters absolutely loved (state) primary school. Academic, sporty, engaged, interested in everything. When it came to that time, I looked round a few local state secondaries and all I could think is ‘they’d hate it here’. We moved heaven and earth to send them to an independent secondary.
It wasn’t because I wanted to buy them higher grades, it was because I wanted them to be happy at school.

Most schools have banned phones, in theory at any rate.

Yes I agree. I think the contrast between primary and secondary is too stark.

I wonder what the results would be like for children who are in the 3 tier system.

Yes to this.

Also - lack of extra curricular activities, lack of pastoral staff, even lack of lockers to stow personal belongings in.

Pointlessly restrictive uniforms and uniform policies that do nothing to foster mutual respect and trust between students and staff.