Why do our kids hate secondary school?

[noblegiraffe]

Together with the news from PISA that our teens are the unhappiest in Europe, new research shows that engagement and enjoyment of school falls off a cliff once kids leave primary and start secondary.

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/revealed-the-school-pupils-who-disengage-during-year-7-dip/

https://www.thedeveloperlive.co.uk/opinion/opinion/why-do-uk-teens-have-among-the-lowest-life-satisfaction-in-the-oecd

"It found that while engagement declines through school “in almost every country”, the magnitude “is more pronounced in England”, suggesting disengagement is not just a symptom of age “but something atypical” that is happening in England.

There has been lots and lots of discussion about the impact that social media is having on teen mental health - what about the impact of having to go to secondary schools that they clearly don't like?

Exactly this - we started Y7 supporting the school and my child being absolutely mortified and upset to get a detention.
5 years later and we are ready to call the school and kick up a fuss if our child receives an unreasonable punishment - if he does get a detention we tell him to not stress about it, it's bollocks, don't let the school get you down.

The curriculum review has issued an interim report and mentioned specifically the overcrowded curriculum.

I am happy that they haven't done anything yet because the last thing we need is more rushed through poorly thought-out changes.

@reluctantbrit thats a good point. You have to decide what you want to do so early, and the way our education system is means there’s little room to change. Uni is fucking expensive, you’ve got to pick the right course to get your monies worth and changing your career choice means even more money

I also think there's no school/ home balance . You can't go away for a long weekend without there being honest work. Or hone work given at the last minute. Home work set in the school holidays so again family days and breaks are ruined. School/homework always on kids minds they never get a true break.

@legoplaybook exactly

The teacher of that class isn’t allowed a comfort break either….

Because it's fucking shit.

The reason for the draconian rules is to keep classes under control so those DC thst want to learn can and the teacher can control the class quickly with minimal disruption.

it does work but it can go to far especially if your picking on a child who really was doing nothing much wrong

but as a teacher you know which pupils are most disruptive.

it’s a balancing act and a decent teacher should be able to impart firmness and kindness and teach well.

its hard though because it’s fucking knackering.

Enormous schools that are so packed they can't let kids do basic things like sit down for their meals or use the toilet facilities. Too big to manage bullying or pastoral issues well. Have to cart all of their things around all day because there are no lockers. I've taught in schools elsewhere and kids are given a much more civilised environment.

@MereNoelle it depends on the school, I know people who hated school even though it was private.

Yep! It’s grim.

Yes of course. No school is going to suit everyone. My point is just that people on here are so keen to tell you that private school is a waste of money, but then I read threads like this and think that honestly it’s the best money I’ve ever spent.

My DC are in a European school. They start kindergarten the August after they turn at 4, school (yr1) after they turn 6 and are at primary until Yr6. If a child is brilliant, they can skip a year, if they are "young" for their year or having difficulty (e.g. SEN) they will often be kept back; if their marks are consistently low they repeat a year.

DC start secondary school at 12 (yr7) and are streamed based on their Yr5&6 marks. Their school has Yr7, 8 and 9.
Very generally speaking, the lower stream will go to apprenticeships after Yr9.
The academic kids leave after Yr8 and go to probably what we would call a grammar school if they want to go to uni.
Or they can spend an extra year and go after Yr9, or go to a vocational grammar school if they're not planning on going to uni.

There are no end of year exams. It's all continuous assessment, a large part of which is participation in class and willingness to learn.
In the second half of Yr 7 they learn how to write cv's in IT.
In Yr 8 they have one lesson a week dedicated to career choices.
They are expected to arrange work experience and can miss school for this.
They have no school rules beyond "bullying will not be tolerated" and no uniform.
Detentions as a concept doesn't exist.
They are allowed phones at school, usually kept in a basket on the teachers desk and collected at the end of the lesson.
Most lessons in the same classroom with the same few teachers.
The school is closed over lunch and children have to go home (1145-1345)
Lessons start at 720 and finish between 1520 and 1620, one day a week at 1145.
Learning is very much seen as the child's responsibility. A lot of DC2's class WhatsApp is reminding each other they have a test coming up or homework due or answering questions if someone needs help.

It feels like Gove wanted schools to be a mixture of 50s grammar school (as he imagined them) and Singapore. And things just got tighter and tighter. In the 90s things weren’t perfect but nothing feels like it’s gone in the right way since, at least consistently. We’ve had and lost Building Schools for the Future, which did provide better surroundings for a lot of children. Funding and teacher numbers are going down all the time. The last government celebrated the fact that grades kept rising (while being concerned that things were ‘too easy’) while kids got more anxious and miserable.

My manifesto would be, based on my children’s experience:

No uniform but a dress code. My children are being ‘prepared for the world of work’ by wearing a clip-on nylon tie while the managing partners at my global corporate firm wear open-necked shirts to work, and the kids are punished with isolation from their peers if they forget them.

Two tier education within one school with children able to choose the academic or vocational option in core subjects. Triple science or public understanding of science. Pure maths and statistics or maths for life. Etc. Maths and science can become two GCSE options and open up choice to engage kids more. Make BTECs an option wherever possible. Scrap most exams and introduce grading through demonstration of skills in continuous assessment.

Let teachers have more choice in what they teach so long as those skills can be measured. Do a national skills audit to understand future jobs and what will be needed in the future, and support children in using those skills.

Funding, real meaningful funding.

Measure educational outcomes by wider metrics. Look at signifiers of health.

Develop targeted provision for children overwhelmed by the school environment because of ND or MH issues. Make this a standard national offer in local centres and stop wasting money on LA legal and transport costs. If the money spend on school SEN transport was spent on offering better provision everyone would be better off.

Some of this is pie in the sky. Some of it could be done with a commitment to make our education better for our children.

Very true, I went to a school of about 600 kids and we all had a locker, there were plenty of toilets and at lunch times you could sit at a table and eat a cooked meal.
My child is in a school twice that size and has never even managed to buy a meal from the canteen as there's not enough time to queue - he eats his lunch standing outside.

I think this is the main reason most private school parents have chosen that route. The perception is that it’s a much nicer environment for the kids. Whether or not that holds, I don’t know.

I seem to have been really lucky with my local secondary and both my boys have thrived. My eldest is currently doing a levels, he is dyslexic but has been given so much support by his teacher and passed all of his gcses with grades 5-7. My youngest is a high flyer, but has been really encouraged to take part is STEM after school activities and has been given the opportunity to participate and compete in loads of sport. I guess it depends where you are.

@MereNoelle As I said it depends on the school. Some privates aren't good value & some states are good.

It has held for us. But each school is different and DDs is a non-selective with great pastoral which is why we chose it.

Yes I know that. But most people who choose independent school do so because it’s a better school for their child than their local state option.

Same here! But I do think it's very unfair even though my DS's secondary is one of the cheapest (2 k per year) only well-behaved good students are accepted. I wish all students could go to a school meeting a calm and friendly environment where all children are motivated to learn and where parents and students respect the teachers.

I remember going into a German school as a teen on an exchange and they also didn’t care what others were wearing or fussed about brands like we were here.

But - I thought funnelling in Germany was worse?! Like if you’re not seen to be getting the best grades at a young age you can’t go to the Gymnasium school. So it seemed more restrictive to me.

Because it’s a vile experience from start to finish. Worst time. Ever.

Unless, you are one of the lucky ones who have a good time 🤷🏻‍♀️

That would be the ideal, yes!

@MereNoelle I haven't claimed otherwise?