Why do our kids hate secondary school?

[noblegiraffe]

Together with the news from PISA that our teens are the unhappiest in Europe, new research shows that engagement and enjoyment of school falls off a cliff once kids leave primary and start secondary.

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/revealed-the-school-pupils-who-disengage-during-year-7-dip/

https://www.thedeveloperlive.co.uk/opinion/opinion/why-do-uk-teens-have-among-the-lowest-life-satisfaction-in-the-oecd

"It found that while engagement declines through school “in almost every country”, the magnitude “is more pronounced in England”, suggesting disengagement is not just a symptom of age “but something atypical” that is happening in England.

There has been lots and lots of discussion about the impact that social media is having on teen mental health - what about the impact of having to go to secondary schools that they clearly don't like?

What do you think @noblegiraffe ? You’re a teacher.

I went through a three tier school system and I wish we had it where I live now - the idea of my August baby who will have just turned 11 going to a school with 17/18 year olds is horrifying. We’ll end up doing everything we can to send her private - there is a local state school that has effectively created a ‘middle school’ within the high school for years 7&8 but that has a 0.8 mile radius catchment area because it’s an outstanding school where there no stupid rules around toilets, young kids aren’t exposed to older kids too soon and there is very little bullying/behavioural problems.
I firmly believe the three tier system would resolve a vast amount of the engagement issues

I agree. Some staff seem to be on a power trip. At dd school when they do equipment check they have to hold their pencil cases in the air until evey childs case has been checked. Ds told me when he was there at role call which was outside they had to take their blazers of no matter what the weather was so even if it was freezing. Dd recently told me blazers can't be removed unless the weather is above 25c

Also if they don't get 100% on their homework they get detention. So basically kids cheat.

Too many pointless rules (who cares what colour socks someone is wearing) but ignoring bigger issues like bullying.

Not enough break times, lunch was about 30 mins when my DC were at school. It was an hour for me, plenty of time to eat and mess about with your mates/burn off energy.

Even things like being allowed to chat during tutor/registration time. We always were when I was at school. Obviously we were quiet during the actual register and if our form tutor had to tell us anything. Other than that it was 10 mins of chat/fun twice per day. My DC were expected to sit quietly and read the entire time.
And we were allowed to set up clubs, or have fun in lessons. Once we persuaded our French teacher that we'd learn loads if we all bought in French food and had a picnic but had to speak French the entire time. Or the time another French teacher let us watch the World Cup (or was it the Euros?) but only if we watched in French.

Or the time we convinced our German teacher that watching Titanic in German would do wonders for our conversational skills. That took up 3 or 4 lessons.

@Ineedanewsofa I know a few secondaries that keep the younger dc on separate sites & 6 th formers etc change classes at different times so there isn't any crossover.

Now many have had their brain destroyed by screens from birth and overstructured childhoods, having travelled half the globe by age 4, and raised like gods by equally entitled parents

Nope

@footpath that’s great, I wish it was common practice but there is only one state school near us that does it unfortunately. The private schools in this area all do it interestingly.

There is so much discrepancy between schools

It’s because the system is broken. Stressed out teachers. Too many supply teachers. Badly behaved kids. The School environment doesn’t feel safe as teachers can’t control the class. Nowhere near enough funding, so Schools can’t meet the kids needs or provide enrichment activities. Never ending tests and assessments. The less confident kids get lost in the crowd. It’s all about who shouts the loudest.
School is the cause of anxiety disorders for so many children. It’s not seen as something they enjoy, just something to get through. It’s so sad.

My DS y7 can wear whatever he wants to school as long as it's not offensive (no ripped jeans, no hats, no showing too much skin). T-shirt and shorts are fine in the summer. My DH used to wear a tie to work but now noone does anymore and they do casual friday. If workplaces are lightning up I think it's time to let our children be free as well.

State secondary: Kids feel like cattle lined up for market, a number in the system who isn’t valued (unless top performing and well-behaved) Not feeling recognised as an individual to any of the teachers. Parents evenings where teachers clearly do not know the child and child picks up on it. Loses respect.
One size fits approach for all.
Too many subjects studied up to year 9, too many assessments, not enough time spent on educational fun. Couple of cooking lessons, no materials for woodcraft sewing etc.
A ciriculum that is too full. I really wish they could just focus on a handful.
Not enough support for those who “could do better” to understand why they aren’t “doing better”
Kids wanting social media careers and not seeing value of education.
Unclear value of higher education for some teens who would rather be in apprentice or fast stream work placements.
Conitnual change in teachers, supply classes (slows learning, some classes repeated, some teachers not following lesson plans therefore missed topic with no time to revisit).
COVID lockdown led to change in attitude and respect towards school expectations.
Homework not looked at , constructive feedback not given.
Automated homework online (tick boxes) that kids guess at and don’t deeply learn from. And teachers don’t have to mark.
No space in the curriculum to slow the pace or learn via non-Traditional routes e.g write a play about an historical theme, visit war sites as part of ciriculum (and not as end of term trip after exams finished)

You keep following what other sheept do and making up for your other inadequacies at the cost of your children.

My guess is it's things that are specific to England. So probably not social media usage, because we certainly are not the only country on the continent where kids are glued to smartphones.

Agree with previous posters that GCSEs and batshit uniform policies for the sake of being seen to do something are probably part of it.

Because Secondary is too much. They're like mega schools here. 13 form entry. From Junior school where there's a maximum of 3 forms a year. They've merged and merged secondaries until they resemble prisons rather than schools. It's too much at age 11.

You keep following what other sheept do and making up for your other inadequacies at the cost of your children.

Another brilliant contribution 😆

Also agree that lunch breaks are too short. Kids don't get to eat, play and chat.
They have to cram in some food, brave the toilets and try and have a chat in 30 mins. I'd be miserable if I had to do that at work. Luckily I can eat lunch at my desk, use the toilet whenever I like without asking and still get a 30 min lunch to go for a walk.

I have lots of opinions so I tried not to put them in my OP as I tend towards very long posts...

Lots of things that have been suggested on here (like detentions for wrong socks, not having a pen, not being allowed to the toilet in lessons) don't apply to my school and yet the kids don't seem to be skipping happily in so while I think super strict behaviour policies contribute, they're not the only explanation.

My school isn't a nice place to be, tbh. The building is crappy, should have been torn down and rebuilt years ago. Way too hot in the summer, too cold in the winter, dirty, faded and generally depressing. The curriculum certainly feels overcrowded, we don't seem to have room in the year for fun projects or stuff that doesn't directly contribute to improving test-passing knowledge anymore.
There's a severe shortage of teaching staff and kids are having lots of cover lessons where basically nothing is learned and behaviour is terrible. Everything feels rushed - breaktime is nominally 20 minutes but by the time they're outside there's 15 minutes left, then five minutes before the end they are herded to their next lesson so effectively they've only got 10 minutes to chill out. Lunch is now half the length it was when I started teaching.
And teachers are so stressed - that also has to have an impact.

Parents always moan about schools doing 'fun stuff' in the week before Christmas as it's a waste of time, so we don't do that anymore, we teach right up till the end. I don't think that's necessarily a good thing.

Incidentally, when kids are polled, they generally aren't in favour of extending lunchtimes, they'd rather school finished earlier. Probably because they can then go on their phones.

Two main reasons,

Bullying is endemic because of poor parenting and a primary system that encourages children to ‘not tell tales’ so by the time they go to high school the bullies are well established.

And, secondly, on the whole, the majority of people in this country do not value education. So children are not encouraged at home.

In our case - huge academy, zero tolerance on everything, one size fits all disciplinarian approach which is scary for the more sensitive ones (tho i understand why it's needed in such a large setting), disgusting toilets and no time to eat.

Why do you think English children are unhappy?

And, secondly, on the whole, the majority of people in this country do not value education. So children are not encouraged at home.

I just don't recognise this. The majority of the population don't value education?

I don't think it's real banning though. As far as I'm aware, 'banning' phones usually means they are allowed to have them in school in their bags, supposedly switched off. Whereas they actually have them in their pockets, on silent, and use them whenever they can get away with doing so. Imo this is the main motive for the excessive number toilet trips which teachers complain about.

In our immediate area we have no three tier schools. Year 12 & 13 go to FE colleges which incorporate A levels and Apprenticeships.
The grammar school has 3 their but year 12 &13 on a completely different site.
Saying that none of the schools are outstanding, more likely having to become academies which are also failing.
Sent my kids out of area to a good school but it was very time intensive all round. Poor buildings, overcrowding, bad behaviour, high turnover of staff, dire lack of money, deprived area, all add to an unpleasant mix. It is a worry 😟

See the post before the one you quoted.