How do you honestly feel about a baby having two mums?

[Corneliusthecamel]

Hi,

Recently, a close friendship has come to an end and it’s been difficult to process. Long story short - I am a woman married to another woman and I gave birth to a baby last year who was conceived via sperm donor/fertility treatment through the NHS. We are all really happy and she is beautiful.

A good, long term friend of mine has become increasingly distant over the past couple of years. I confronted her about this recently and she admitted that she struggles with my life choices and doesn’t feel it’s right that I have chosen to bring a baby up with another woman. She feels very strongly that a baby should have a traditional mum and dad unit where possible and feels that I am wrong for choosing this path.

Anyway, the friendship is over, and I think that’s the right thing for both of us - it’s not really possible to carry on when we both have such different views and experiences of the world.

But it has made me want to ask - what are your honest opinions of two women choosing to pursue fertility treatment and having a baby? Obviously it’s my life and I’m happy so in one way, who cares. But I truly didn’t think my friend held those types of views and often, people won’t speak their true thoughts in real life, so I am curious what people truly think about it

I don't have an issue with a child having two mothers or two fathers but I do think the use of surrogacy, donor eggs and sperm and of the other permutations where the genetics of a child is mixed up and doesn't match what is written on the birth certificate is storing up issues for the future. There is already a significant movement of now adults born from donor sperm who are struggling with the psychological implications of that.

I think a lot of the challenge comes from the fact that prior to I think something like 2005 totally anonymous donation was legal in the U.K. This means large numbers of donor conceived people who are now in their late 20s or older can never know who their donor is and cannot reach out to them.

I think that type of anonymous donation is wrong on so many levels. I do think the current laws strike the right balance, but it would be nice if we also had the option to use a clinic and a bank with donors able to agree to contact before a child reaches 18. It would allow the existing protections present with using a bank but more involvement and information from the donors.

Good for him - I look forward to one day thanking the donor who ended up giving me such an amazing gift and its lovely that he (with your support) chose to do that.

@abracadabra1980 "I don't live in London or the South, and which is blatantly where the majority of MN user reside." How can you possibly know this? You do realise that belief and bias aren't the same as knowledge, right?

I have done reciprocal IVF. I’m the bio mum, my partner is the birth mother. She is listed on the birth certificate as “mother” - any woman who gives birth to any child in any circumstance is that child’s mother in the eyes of the law. I am also on the birth certificate and we have equal rights. My partner grew her from a microscopic embryo into a full grown baby inside her body, she gave birth to her, and breastfed her. As a baby DD was far more attached to my partner. She now has an equally strong bond with both of us. She might not be genetically related to her but she grew her, gave birth to her and breastfed her..I think it’s fair to say that makes her a mother! In my eyes anyway. You can’t compare it to surrogacy- you hand the baby over as soon as you’ve given birth - there’s no bonding, breastfeeding, night feeds, nothing a mother does in the newborn days

I’m in rural Ireland. DS had two children at his old primary who had two mothers. (Not siblings, two separate children.) Ordinary GAA-playing kids who appeared to be leading perfectly unexceptionable lives in their community and at school.

Yes, There's a really sad website, Anonymous us, and a report, My Daddy's Name Is Donor. I understand the pain of infertility as longing for a child are huge, but you do have to question why the parents made the decision to choose donation like that...esp the parents who didn't reveal until adulthood.
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Loving parent or parents is the most important thing.

Recently on holiday I observed two women with two quite young children, both under 6. Only one woman was paying any attention to the children every time I saw them. The other woman was completely disengaged, scrolling on her phone etc . The women were a couple but only one was parenting.

@abracadabra1980 "I don't live in London or the South, and which is blatantly where the majority of MN user reside."

This reminds me of being at school in the 90s and the teacher mentioning gay people and this ignorant 15-year-old boy saying, “but sir, there’s no gays in Yorkshire” 🤣🤣
At least he had an excuse- he was 15 and it was the 90s, what’s your excuse? Gay families don’t just live in London and the south! I still live in Yorkshire with my female partner and kids and know many, many male and female same sex families. At DD’s school there are 2 other kids with same sex parents - none of them, including her have ever got any hassle. Kids really don’t give a shit these days! So don’t project your own homophobia onto them

I brought my son up alone after his co-mother said oops, she realised she wanted to be heterosexual, goodbye. When he was eight my new partner moved in. She did outdoorsy stuff like swimming and sailing with him, we both did everything' else from cooking to reading to dog walks to oh god no, maths homework. Maybe because we lived in a big city and there were other same sex couples at the primary school gate, nobody around and about was that interested. My son's friends were all from hetero families. None of the other children ever commented on our household, including at secondary school age or when they came away on on seaside holidays with us.
Does it still matter? I'm not keen on some people's colder parenting styles and admire others who show consistent warmth, creativity and calmness. But I've seen that rare wonderfulness from both women and men, is not because of their gender or sexuality.

My sis and sil raised their friends kid basically from birth due to ppd (that’s what she said anyway I don’t believe her though she just wanted to party) she’s 12 now and they are amazing parents. Nurturing, understanding and honestly I feel they do a better job than me sometimes. Same sex parents can be just as good if not better than M/F parents. Also a friend and her ex wife had a kid together same way as yourself and are raising the child separately due to divorce but the kid is doing amazing and one of the mums (non birther) atleast seems like she’s doing a good job the other is more deadbeat dad (the one who birthed the kid) but still takes the kid during their contact time. Parenthood is what you make it fuck what others think and your friend isn’t a good friend be glad she’s out of your life

I was a fostermum for 25 years & saw & heard about some horrible things that happened to kids. I seriously could not care less if a child has Mum/Dad, Mum/Mum or Dad/Dad as long as they both love that child, care for them properly & treat them right. In 25 years of care every child that came to us from a 2 parent family had a Mum & a Dad so it is obviously no guarantee of a "perfect" family.

Do you love and care for them? Do you treat them with respect and make sure they grow up with manners and kindness? No abuse or aggression towards the kiddos or each other? Then, like any other consenting adults, I think you’re grand to be having and raising children. What you do in a bedroom and how you feel about another adult is none of my damn business tbh! You just have to not be a horrible parent…?!

While I agree with everything you say, I feel you are missing a huge aspect from the child’s perspective.

Children’s sense of identity relies on knowing their biological genetic heritage. The psychological impact of being born of anonymous donor sperm can be a struggle.

No worries about having two mums from the child’s point of view. I’m always genuinely impressed by the lack of any jealousy or resentment between partners over the actual title of “mum” though, especially at the start, if both women are equally presented as the “mum” but only one had to go through being pregnant, giving birth, potentially breastfeeding etc to get there (not quite the same as the other parent becoming ‘dad’ because that doesn’t imply all the physical labour too).

Bigoted minds

Honestly- I think that two loving, stable, committed opposite sex parents has some potential to help children relate well to a larger section of the human race than the alternatives: one person on their own, or two same sex parents. BUT in practice some opposite sex parents are not loving, stable and committed and the children have a horrible time in their traditional setup. Much the most important thing is an understanding and loving parental presence in some form. I have several women friends who had their children by donor sperm and admire them.

Two mums fine
Two dads via adoption fine
Two dads co-parenting with mum/lesbian couple fine
Any man or men exploiting women's bodies and breaking the mother-baby dyad via surrogacy - absolutely disgusting.

A lot of boys grow up without their dad. Usually the dad’s choice to have no contact. They can have male role models in their lives.

I don’t know whether to laugh or cry reading this thread. So much hate and bigotry.

Either genetic relationships matter or they don’t.

If a genetic link is critically important to a child’s welfare, then ban adoption, ban sperm / egg donation, and surrogacy is fine if it uses the parents’ sperm and eggs. While you’re at it, prosecute women who have children through affairs and don’t tell their husbands, and ban parents from remarrying and giving their children step-parents.

If dads bringing up children is a problem then whenever the mother dies or is incapacitated force them to put the child up for adoption to a mother and father. Anybody who is against dads having children must be in favour of that.

Of course in reality, genetic relationships don’t matter. What matters is that children are brought up in loving stable environments and by parents who know how to parent their children (which a very large portion of families of opposite sex couples have no idea how to do and same sex couples or single parents of either sex are perfectly capable of doing).
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Oh I totally agree that they should have all that info available to them too. Anon donors should not be a thing.

(I wasn’t aware of ‘reciprocal IVF’ when writing the above, so it assumed the other partner had had no physical part in the creation of the baby - egg donation is also a gruelling physical process (plus creates a direct genetic link, so actually doing a major part of the role, which historically couldn’t be split between the genetic contribution and labour) so feels much more equal).

Honestly I think two mums are better than one.

The number of threads on here about toxic exhs pays testament to the ongoing risk of having a baby with a man.

Case in point, my sister and my best friend both have kids with toxic dads, forever gaslighting their shared offspring, whilst withholding money and messing arrangements about just to be difficult.

I'm married to a gem of a man, in many ways, whom my children adore, but even he does no housework or cooking.

If i could choose my sexuality, I'd be a lesbian. Bringing up kids with a female partner sounds like heaven for the kids and both partners. Not to mention, if anything were to go wrong in the relationship I would trust them both to handle without the narcissistic behaviour I've seen demonstrated by many of the exh in real life. 😔

You're always going to get some people who are too bound by the cultural zeitgeist of the previous generation. They will disapprove just like in previous gens, mixed race marriages were frowned upon. 🙄

You enjoy your life amd ignore the buggers. Their loss.

It’s really ironic that the first reply was deleted and many posters had already quoted it and said they agree.
Presumably it was homophobic.
I’ve never really thought about surrogacy nor done any research, so I’m surprised by the comments. I will go and read up about the issues.

@anon666 how are people bringing up sons to be good dads? Bit shit if the narrative is that 2 mums are better than having a dad in their life. What message is that giving to our sons? Is that not just going to perpetuate the problem of toxic/useless dads