How do you honestly feel about a baby having two mums?

[Corneliusthecamel]

Hi,

Recently, a close friendship has come to an end and it’s been difficult to process. Long story short - I am a woman married to another woman and I gave birth to a baby last year who was conceived via sperm donor/fertility treatment through the NHS. We are all really happy and she is beautiful.

A good, long term friend of mine has become increasingly distant over the past couple of years. I confronted her about this recently and she admitted that she struggles with my life choices and doesn’t feel it’s right that I have chosen to bring a baby up with another woman. She feels very strongly that a baby should have a traditional mum and dad unit where possible and feels that I am wrong for choosing this path.

Anyway, the friendship is over, and I think that’s the right thing for both of us - it’s not really possible to carry on when we both have such different views and experiences of the world.

But it has made me want to ask - what are your honest opinions of two women choosing to pursue fertility treatment and having a baby? Obviously it’s my life and I’m happy so in one way, who cares. But I truly didn’t think my friend held those types of views and often, people won’t speak their true thoughts in real life, so I am curious what people truly think about it

But isn't giving birth one of the core things that makes you a mother?

I believe the mother the egg was used from is the baby's biological Mum. The other lady has carried and grown the baby (an absolutely amazing act), but no DNA link.

That’s not how I see it. My own mother is the one who I share my DNA with. I feel connected to both my biological parents and that’s shaped my sense of identity. Children don’t remember who gave birth to them.

Yes...it's a tricky issue. Ultimately bio mum is the mother whose egg it is.

Heterosexual couple benefit from the advances in medical technology too - surrogacy and donated eggs and IVF is available to gay and straight couples. For the most part, no one has any idea how a specific child came to exist and it would be really intrusive to start asking. The only difference for a same sex couple is that there are a few options you can probably rule out - no accidental pregnancies, only very wanted ones.

there are plenty of heterosexual people and couples with dubious reasons for having a child too. And many, many unwanted children in the world.

Legally, in the UK, the birth mother is considered to be the mother and has parental rights. In surrogacy situations, the parents who contributed their DNA would need to apply for a parental order once the baby is 6 weeks old - and the birth mother can say no.

The birth mother also influences epigenetics which can lead to the baby sharing the birth mum’s traits, even if their DNA isn’t related. The DNA is the hardware - mum’s womb is essentially the software driving it.

All genetic inheritance comes from the egg and sperm. The surrogate's influence is through epigenetic mechanisms, which don't change the fundamental genetic blueprint.

I don't live in London or the South, and which is blatantly where the majority of MN user reside. Where I live, a child would have a really hard time at school, if they were to be the child of two mothers.

NHS money shouldn't be wasted on that sort of thing in the first place.
But also from a scientific perspective a traditional setup works for healthy child development. Studies show that non traditional set ups leads to higher incidence of depression / violence / crime / anti social behaviour etc etc etc etc.
There is a reason it is Adam and Eve.

People can choose to do what they want but it is sad to drag innocent chileren into the mix. There used to be a saying when I was growing up "do what you want as long as you are not hurting yourself or anyone else".

I have an aunt who ended up in a female relationship and I noticed the change in my cousins behaviour and their lives went down the crapper. All of them disconnected and did nothing good with their lives. Partying, drugs and kids at very young ages.

@MixedBananas an unfashionable view no doubt but not entirely wrong. I broadly agree.

I live in a village in Yorkshire. No one gives a shiny shit

I live in a village in the Midlands. Daughter’s best friend has 2 mums, and there is at least one other family in their village school with the same set up. They’re not bullied.

Which is exactly what I said.

My parents are hetero. They abused me in unfathomable ways (openly letting me know they hated me, and that I was unloveable and deserved everything negative that came my way until far into adulthood and I went no contact). I went into a succession of highly abusive (and hetero) foster homes, where they continued and reinforced that narrative. I would have loved to have had just one, decent (and normal, no drama) parent, let alone two, who loved and supported me for me. This is not about my past, I am just using it as an example, the point I am trying to make is that the most important thing is that your precious little one is wanted, loved, respected, and surrounded by decent people with the right moral compass, who are willing to fight their corner. That is how my Husband and I have viewed it (his childhood had it's issues, too). As a result, our children feel loved, confident, and always able to come to us. Your child/ren are so lucky to have Mums like you. All the best xxx

Do you disagree? I support myself but I can understand worries esp concerning sperm donation.

Anyone's mum leaving their dad & getting a new partner is upsetting, a new female partner is a bigger change. C different from 2 mums from the beginning.

Your use of 'innocent children' - this may not be what you mean, but potentially it sounds like you think gay relationships are automatically oversexualised & inappropriate for kids to be around. I hope that isn't what you meant, I can see maybe you just meant it's sad for kids to not to have a dad and might harm them.

There are many studies showing good outcomes for lesbian mums tho. It's different from a mum whose partner has left and is deadbeat. See Susan Golombok or Judith Stacey.

@MixedBananas , do you disagree w funded sperm donation or egg donation by NHS for hetero couples too?

That's an interesting way of looking at it. How does a woman using a surrogate get responsibility I wonder - or is it automatically?

Hmm..I guess I associate giving birth w a lot of the initial bonding w the child. Maybe bc I've heard a lot about my mum's birth & pregnancy, quite a saga... The genetic link is crucial ofc.

Ofc most straight couples are good. There are many studies showing well adjusted kids of same sex couples. I expect known donor etc plays a big role. It comes across as negative & unpleasant to compare as better than bad straight couples. The point is that lesbian couples w a known donor can raise happy successful kids

What do you think about 2 mums coparenting w the dad? This would be my ideal but I imagine could be hard to find someone. In Germany they encourage gay men to do this, but here it's surrogacy, which is v wrong imo.

I've read accounts of angry children of lesbian mums, and generally they are angry about no father being around.

I don’t think anyone can deny it takes a male and a female (or at least their parts) to make a baby.
Yes, it’s their biology and genetic make up but I don’t think this makes them “a parent”. There is a lot more to it than just production.
I had reciprocal IVF with my wife (her eggs, my body). I carried my gorgeous children in me for 9 months, I gave birth to them, I breastfed them and every day I raise them, love them and take care of them. And yet according to some people on this post I am not a mother because we don’t share DNA (although look up epigenetics!).
I’m never going to deny my children the knowledge of their donor but nor will I refer to him as a father (unless when they are older that’s what they want to refer to him as). I am forever grateful to him for helping us create our children but he is not their parent. My wife and I are their parents.

No issues with any loving family combination.

No idea where you live but I’m in a small Yorkshire town and had nothing but kindness and support from other mums, neighbours, health professionals and colleagues as well as their kids. Can’t say I’ve met anybody who would give me a hard time. Not saying people can’t be unkind but if they are, not had it yet.
Work as a matron in the NHS and again, nothing but kindness and support from everyone about my situation prior to leaving for mat leave!

It’s great that your children will know who their father is and who they are genetically related to. I strongly believe that children need to know this as their identity develops.