How do you honestly feel about a baby having two mums?

[Corneliusthecamel]

Hi,

Recently, a close friendship has come to an end and it’s been difficult to process. Long story short - I am a woman married to another woman and I gave birth to a baby last year who was conceived via sperm donor/fertility treatment through the NHS. We are all really happy and she is beautiful.

A good, long term friend of mine has become increasingly distant over the past couple of years. I confronted her about this recently and she admitted that she struggles with my life choices and doesn’t feel it’s right that I have chosen to bring a baby up with another woman. She feels very strongly that a baby should have a traditional mum and dad unit where possible and feels that I am wrong for choosing this path.

Anyway, the friendship is over, and I think that’s the right thing for both of us - it’s not really possible to carry on when we both have such different views and experiences of the world.

But it has made me want to ask - what are your honest opinions of two women choosing to pursue fertility treatment and having a baby? Obviously it’s my life and I’m happy so in one way, who cares. But I truly didn’t think my friend held those types of views and often, people won’t speak their true thoughts in real life, so I am curious what people truly think about it

Isn’t that just your opinion?

Which studies?

Oh i disagree. We've been outsourcing our childcare to those less educated and autonomous than ourselves for generations.

Who ensure their nanny has a PHD? People employ aupairs that have never left their homes before their join theirs.

This. It's a plain statistical fact that in all sorts of ways, men are more likely to fuck up around children than women. And men aren't much good at putting themselves second ime.

I've seen some 'engaged fathers' do awful things with their kids while drawing attention to themselves, apparently trying to show off their marvellous parenting. Completely lacking in self- awareness.

It’s definitely homophobia.

If there is sexual abuse it is more likely the mother’s new partner and while risk of sexual
abuse ia higher from men women physically abuse their children at higher rates.

I wouldn't have an issue with it at all. In an ideal world, the children would also have male role models that they spend time with, such as uncles / grandads / close family friends.

Not that this is a reason for doing or not doing something, but just as we're on it, in a sense it's more "natural". Historically (as far as we can tell), it was the norm for children to be raised by groups of women. I always think it would be nice if I lived with my mum or a sister or "mum friend", and we raised our children together. Although you and your wife aren't necessarily similar in temperament to my mum friends.

FWIW too, your "friend" sounds awful! X

If you're interested, this book is amazing at outlining the benefits to children's development, of having male role models.

https://www.worldofbooks.com/en-gb/products/life-of-dad-book-anna-machin-9781471161407?sku=GOR009127952&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=19545754761&gbraid=0AAAAADZzAIANnbO2_w2S9N8zEgyvHdfov&gclid=Cj0KCQjwxJvBBhDuARIsAGUgNfitnx1z_XJJyH92nPmhNEh4_SZJxJbZgdYNEzCDALR9w8CHYk1SAQ8aAgTcEALw_wcB

Well what I have done is had my children with an abusive man who isn’t particularly nice to them. They are 16 and 18 now and think he is a shit dad. I don’t see how they have benefited more from that than if they had another mum instead.

If you are 2 good mums then I think that’s better than 1 good mum and a rubbish dad.
I don’t think you have to do anything to prove yourselves to be 2 amazing mums, that’s not what I mean. Just be there, be present and helpful for the the baby as they grow up. 2 good, present parents is a lot more than a lot of kids have.
Im a single parent due to the useless dad and I think I’m doing a good job but ultimately there is only one of me. If I had a partner to help life would be easier.

Im sure there are lots of amazing dads and the kids benefit from having them but I personally don’t know any. My dad was an alcoholic and we went without food and school coats etc. My half sisters dad was also useless.

So If you remain 2 good mums, even if you split up in the future (not saying you will but that’s when the going gets tough) then I think it’s a lucky baby.

This is mostly how I feel. I don’t agree with surrogacy or ivf.

No, I don't think a rapist parent has a right to know the child.

Nor do I think the child has an obligation to know their origins.

Those are two very different things and logical conflations with my take on things.

I think a child has a right to know their own origins. i.e. nobody should be allowed to conceal that information from them if they want to know it and they should have full and easy access to the information. That means, for example, that I don't believe in donor anonymity.

I'm sorry to hear about your friend - that must be hard and I hope they are able to access support. However, I do tend to think in life in generally that dealing with the truth is healthier than living with the anxiety of the unknown or living a lie (which can often come to light in traumatic ways which compound the issue). All the very best to your friend.

I agree a mother's new partner is a high risk for kids, but my point was I'd trust the two moms over any male. Gay men and straight men commit crimes against children - being gay doesn't lessen a man's potential for bad behavior. It's being male that is the risk factor.

Fully supportive of same sex parents.

Interesting that some commenters don't agree with sperm donation. My husband donated recently (we're done having kids). I'm very happy with this and hope it helps some people out there to create their families now we have ours.

For what it's worth. I am a woman married to another woman and we have two really lovely sons (17 and 14). When my eldest son went to school we were a very unusual family (at that time there were no lesbian couples on mainstream telly, gay marriage didn't exist etc) I felt that while most of the other mum's I met were welcoming a few seemed pointedly distant but in retrospect it may have been a reaction to my being overly cautious with them in anticipation of rejection. By the time my second son came along, a particularly sporty and popular boy, there was no issue at all. It has continued that way ever since, I genuinely forget our family is 'different' and no one else seems to care either. It is also a non issue for our sons, they have never been bullied for it and their family make up is just their normal. A bigger difference to them is we are not divorced, unlike many of their friend's parents, and they don't have two homes. I wouldn't worry about your friend's reaction. Having a child will change your relationship, for better or worse, with every person you know. The change between you might have also happened if you were in a straight relationship.

Why married? What if you are non religious and do not believe in the societal construct of marriage and can live a perfectly happy monogamous life with your partner, without some stupid piece of paper telling you who you love?
I hate the patriarchal implications of marriage and my DH respects that. But we have been together nearly 20 years with no breaks in our relationship.
I call him my husband though as boyfriend seems a bit silly for us after all this time😂

It isn’t necessarily intuitive, but it does work this way - both mothers can be on the birth certificate from day one, adoption is not required. (I assume that it works like that because using an anonymous donor via a clinic “proves” that the sperm provider renounces any parental rights, but I am speculating)

no issues whatsoever with two women raising a baby, there are a few in our various groups and they are all lovely families. If someone said anything in my hearing I’d ask what they are doing to help the enormous number of one woman raising a baby not by choice and those women might have been better off finding a woman partner than the very many waste of space men! But, to be fair , both no one has ever said that, and as far as I can tell dads in my area are universally pretty hands on.
I do have issues with buying a baby, lots of ethical concerns. Purely voluntary surrogacy is ok but like sex work how do you make sure that’s what’s happening, and protect the woman carrying the baby fairly? And from a financial perspective government funding of ivf for anyone who asks, including single adults. Governments are needing to make tough financial decisions in an unstable world with low growth and high risks and funding that seems a luxury to me.

Wow the balls on her. Not only homophobic but also stupid enough to think you want to hear her opinions on your life. What a knob

Well over 99% of the population don't have a PhD. That doesn't mean they're all "a little bit dumb".

I think you'll just have to admit you picked the wrong category of characteristic, perhaps because you really do think working women are "a little bit dumb".

It depends on the mums, same as in a straight couple it depends on the mum/dad.

I guess the split is between people who are focussed on the “right” or wellbeing of the adults who wish to be parents and those who believe the potential children’s rights and wellbeing should matter more.

I just don’t care tbh, wouldn’t think anything of it. There are some truly shite parents out there, I care about that.

People don't ensure their childcare providers are even as educated at themselves..in fact, they'd be put off if they were. That's why nurseries can employ people who barely have a gcse. Nobody looks for someone smart to look after their kids, they pick someone who will do as they are told.

Just because these poor children are better off now than they were with their original parents (who were neglectful and clearly not fit to become parents) does not mean that this set up (2 dads) is the best solution for the children’s long term happiness.

Marriage offers lots of legal protections for the woman in case of a split. It's in the woman's (and children's)best interests to be married. Plenty of patriarchy-rejecting feminists get married for the protections it offers.

Your partner is not your husband. You have not signed the stupid bit of paper so legally you don't have a husband. Get married, don't get married, whatever, but it's inconsistent to say you reject the concept but are borrowing terminology from it.

Its a social bias on the last paragraph. If you go to Scandinavian countries you see this far less as men in childcare and teaching professions are common.

paternity care is generous ccompared to the UK As such children grow up considering Men as just as valid a parental figure and someone they can go to. I grew up in Scandinavia and I notice by comparison my family and friends in Denmark who had children their children go with a far fewer emphasis to their male parental figure than the British counter parts. For the Scandinavian children this is the norm. We should work on making it the norm in the UK. Then this bias will eventually disappear.